WV laws also state: “...That the implied or expressed consent or willingness of a person or persons to hazing shall not be a defense under this section.”

You become 18 and you're instantly immune from peer pressure?

 

So, the "adults" with him chanting "do it, do it, do it" are culpable?

1) If you are encouraging someone to do something dangerous. 2) If it's alcohol, last time I checked 18 is underage. People need to take care of and watch the people around them, especially if they are so- called friends. Hazing has gotten out of control. And last time I checked there are anti-hazing laws, WV has those laws as well. In WV a non-death incident can land you up to 9 months in jail. And it could be raised to a felony.

1. If I'm stupid enough to do something stupid because several people are encouraging me to do it, I'm still the only one that makes the decision to do it or not.

 

2. Last time I checked an 18 year old has been taught the dangers of alcohol, and knows it's illegal for him to consume alcohol. Nobody forced him to drink the alcohol.

 

 

PEOPLE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS.

You become 18 and you're instantly immune from peer pressure?

 

Please.

1. If I'm stupid enough to do something stupid because several people are encouraging me to do it' date=' I'm still the only one that makes the decision to do it or not. 2. Last time I checked an 18 year old has been taught the dangers of alcohol, and knows it's illegal for him to consume alcohol. PEOPLE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS.[/quote']

Well obviously you're wrong, as there are laws against hazing.

 

Seriously, any parent that has a kid injured or killed due to such acts are not going to just say what you have in bold at the end of your above quote,

Well obviously you're wrong, as there are laws against hazing.

 

Seriously, any parent that has a kid injured or killed due to such acts are not going to just say what you have in bold at the end of your above quote,

I'm not wrong. I don't care what hazing laws say. People are still responsible for their own actions. If my buddy says hop in the car, I've been drinking, and I'm going to drive 120 MPH on US 23, and I'm stupid enough to get in the car with him, and he crashes and we're killed it's still my own stupid fault no matter what the laws may say.

The kid is obviously culpable. Maybe 100% but we just don't know.

 

However, a fraternity can also have a culture that makes them culpable as well. This fraternity was obviously having some issues per the article.

 

You can't lay this 100% on the victim without facts.

Even if we're to say that the kid was 100 percent responsible for his own terrible end, it doesn't mean there wasn't an unhealthy, toxic culture in place there that needed to be changed, thus the punishments from the university.

 

I don't know how much further I'd be willing to take it, but there's some culpability in culture there.

Well obviously you're wrong, as there are laws against hazing.

 

Seriously, any parent that has a kid injured or killed due to such acts are not going to just say what you have in bold at the end of your above quote,

 

I would. I have a 20 year old, 19 year old, 18 year old and a 15 year old.

I have been of the same feeling most of my life. At my college, the Athletes (I played baseball) and Frats didn't get along well, and I've carried that dislike throughout my life. However, my daughter is a member of a sorority. I tried desperately to talk her out of it, but ultimately she made the decision and foot the bill for the costs. Now that she's been involved with her sorority for over a year, I have to admit there are some good points. She's made many great friends. Having those friends has made the transition to living away from home easier. She has to maintain certain grades and the sorority maintains a quiet place to study, as well as providing a network of tutors to help her academically. She's also gotten involved in charity work that has been very rewarding. To my knowledge, no hazing has occurred, and while I'm sure there are parties and events, none of that has affected her schoolwork. Yes, there are plenty of frats/sororities that have it all wrong, but there are also plenty that are doing a lot of good.

 

 

I had the exact same experience with my daughter. I felt very lucky with her experience. A lot of things get out of control when young kids go to college and taste freedom for the first time.

 

I am sure she had many moments that would have scared the heck out of me when she was in college, and I am glad that I will never know what they were.

I would. I have a 20 year old, 19 year old, 18 year old and a 15 year old.

 

A 20 year old, 19 year old, 18 year old and 15 year old...God bless you PP92:)

This goes a lot deeper than an organization wearing greek letters. You group together a host of guys, you get stupidity. Does not matter the age or circumstance. You mix it with alcohol and women you have the propensity for danger. It is an American youth binge drinking problem, not a fraternity/sorority problem. Bad things happen at bachelor parties, not with two guys partying at a local Applebees.

 

I was in a fraternity and it was one of the greatest decisions of my life. Some will never understand that nor do I expect them to, it's not for everybody and I am cool with that. Saying "pay for your friends" shows a lack of understanding though. I did not pay for any of the friends I made, and a lot of those in my fraternity I never considered friends.

 

I don't know how much further I'd be willing to take it, but there's some culpability in culture there.

Without a doubt. A much bigger cultural issue though than folks being Greek.

Well obviously you're wrong, as there are laws against hazing.

 

Seriously, any parent that has a kid injured or killed due to such acts are not going to just say what you have in bold at the end of your above quote,

 

There are rules and laws against hazing, sometimes it is physical, sometimes it is peer pressure. Each case must be looked at and be judged. Yet, an individual is responsible for their actions. Not holding people responsible for their actions and their consequences is a problem in this country. Too many, young and old, want to blame others for their problems, instead of accepting responsibility for their actions.

 

As for fraternity experience, for me it was great. The best friends I have are the guys I met over 40 years ago in the fraternity. I did not drink alcohol and was never put into a position to drink. Unfortunately there were those who suffered negative consequences . I firmly believe those negative actions would have happened in or outside of the fraternity. Those negatives consequences happened because of individual actions.

Best decision I ever made was to join sigma alpha epsilon.