........

There was a point in time when Rose ceased being a star and became an accumulator. That occurred earlier than most want to admit.

 

He undeniably compiled one of the most impressive baseball-card-backs in the history of the sport.

When do think that started?

 

From 65-81 (when he turned 40) he batted .315 and then batted a respectable .266 for between 41-44 years old finishing his career.

Still hit .265 with a .400 OBP as a 44 year old, come on!!!!! And that was in over 500 AB's....

 

When he was 40, he hit .325. What he was accumulating were absurd offensive numbers at a VERY late age. The numbers simply don't back up your statement.

 

Again, I'm not the one who has ever uttered the phrase he was average. My point is this, when you look at the vast majority of his individual accomplishments as compared to his peers, they drop off early in his career. He was still a very productive and effective offensive player, VERY, but not an offensive star at that point. It isn't an insult or in the least bit running down his accomplishments, on the flip side, the ability to hit the ball at that clip, be productive, and have teams wanting to run you out there every day means a great deal!

Can't have that many 200 hit seasons and be average.

Didn't he have some seasons where he got 100 hits from both sides of the plate?

Let's really look at how many people have played Major League baseball. There is nothing in the world that could convince that dude was "average"

 

You are 100% correct.

 

I think we sometimes conflate ability and body type in baseball. Hitting is a unique skill.

 

Pete was never average.

Say it ain't so. His stats mean nothing and he was average based on your eye ball test? It has to be the eye test because those numbers are absurd.

 

Did you even read my post? Where did I say he was an average player? I said he was a GREAT player. As others have said, his physical tools were all average. Speed, arm strength, etc. He worked harder, had more heart, and more dedication than everyone else and he turned himself into a great player.

Did you even read my post? Where did I say he was an average player? I said he was a GREAT player. As others have said, his physical tools were all average. Speed, arm strength, etc. He worked harder, had more heart, and more dedication than everyone else and he turned himself into a great player.

 

You said "Talent-wise he was average." That's what I read. Point is, you can't have average talent and play 24 years in MLB, plus accumulate the numbers he did. Simply not possible.

 

And I'll say the same thing I think when announcers say someone is the "hardest worker", "more dedicated"...etc. Says who? He hasn't outworked every baseball player that's ever lived. Or out-hustled, out-smarted...etc.

.......

 

I wish they would just put him in the Hall of Fame so people would quit talking about him. Bud's stubbornness has proven to be the catalyst to keeping Pete-talk on the front-burner for years. Put him in the HOF and he and the mind-numbing topics and debates will go the way of the Dodo bird.

We seem to be confusing "physical ability" with a specific skill set - hitting a baseball and putting it in play.

 

There are parallels in many sports. Athletes like John Stockton, Steve Nash come to mind. Fran Tarkenton. Lots of baseball examples. Heck, Babe Ruth doesn't exactly wow you from a "natural athlete" perspective. The same could be said for many a professional golfer. Lee Trevino, Billy Casper - Gary Player is another that through a combination of determination and an incredible physical fitness regimen did what literally only a handful of golfers did.

We seem to be confusing "physical ability" with a specific skill set - hitting a baseball and putting it in play.

 

There are parallels in many sports. Athletes like John Stockton, Steve Nash come to mind. Fran Tarkenton. Lots of baseball examples. Heck, Babe Ruth doesn't exactly wow you from a "natural athlete" perspective. The same could be said for many a professional golfer. Lee Trevino, Billy Casper - Gary Player is another that through a combination of determination and an incredible physical fitness regimen did what literally only a handful of golfers did.

 

What was it John Kruk said..."I ain't an athlete, I'm a professional baseball player". :lol2:

Wasn't Rose a potential DI football player? His athleticism gets overlooked. Everyone remembers Big Red Machine Pete, particularly '75 and '76. He was 34 and 35 those years. How many guys that old look fast and explosive??

I think his off field issue goes both ways. It causes some to continue to bang the drum for him because the ban keeps him in the spotlight, while others are tired of it and tend to underestimate or at the least, minimalize what he's done because of the human being that he is.

Talent wise he was a 1 tool player, but he was one of the greatest at that tool. But overall as a player talent wise, he was average

Talent wise he was a 1 tool player' date=' but he was one of the greatest at that tool. But overall as a player talent wise, he was average[/quote']

 

That statement makes no sense.

 

His talent was putting the ball in play and getting on baseball to be specific a more broad answer would be something more vague. To say he was an average talent is laughable because obviously his talent wasn't just average.

You cannot have "average player talent" but yet be one of the greatest in the game.

He was one of the most talented guys to ever play the game.

 

He just didn't look the part.