There are "Christians" today that are being taught and that believe everything is explainable in the bible, there were no "miraculous" or supernatural happenings, such as the virgin birth or even Jesus being risen from the dead. Well, you can't really be a Christian if you don't believe those things, because then you don't believe that God is all powerful. And the Christian concept revolves almost completely, if not fully around our Savior Jesus Christ defeating death and rising from the grave after the 3rd day.

 

I have a guy I work with who is an Elder in his church (a Disciples of Christ Christian church) and he dismisses at least some of the miracles mentioned in the Bible, and has made mention that he may not believe Christ rose form the dead. That shocked me when I heard him discuss this, and it shocked me even more that he could be an Elder in a Christian church with that belief. Then again, I have also learned that many Christian churches have gone independent through the years, including the one I attend, because the Disciples of Christ organization started to have or promote what many call "liberal" non-biblical teachings, such as dismissing the virgin birth, Christ's resurrection, etc. I've not done any detailed research, just some discussions I have had with people in the know.

 

 

This somewhat comes back to the thread regarding why people do not come to Jesus. In it I mentioned one problem is that Christians believe in so many different views of Christianity that some people will just throw their hands in the air and no longer attend church. They sort of become the "I believe in God, just not religion". The problem with this view is that my observation is that is often times will slowly fade to agnosticism or atheism.

 

What really gets difficult is when many differing views churches have conflicting views but both point to the bible as their source. While the bible is divinely inspired and free of error, human interpretation of it obviously is not. Some churches handle snakes as a result of a short biblical passage. Some believe only a set number of people will make it to heaven due to an interpretation of scripture. These are just a few examples.

The only logical conclusion I can gather from this whole thing is that Bert is one sharp dude.

 

You should hear Ernie.

Does that make you snuffleupagus?

You should hear Ernie.

 

Ernie is a punk, he needs to get his own bedroom.

Pascal's Wager - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

I don't like to gamble.

Pascal's Wager - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

I don't like to gamble.

The age old, "If I'm a Christian and I'm wrong, what do I have to lose? vs. If I'm right, what do you have to lose?"

^ I used to be very much against the use of the wager in such discussions. Probably stemmed from my own belief at the time that Pascal was probably full of it since he was a supporter of the Jansenist heresy and so didn't seem to hold that free will had a whole lot to do with salvation anyway.

 

I've softened on that suspicion over the last few years as I came to appreciate his advice to those who examined and accepted the terms of the wager but found themselves unable to believe: study, take Holy Water, attend mass frequently. "Act as if ye had faith and faith shall be given unto you."

"Act as if ye had faith and faith shall be given unto you."

I've found the need to follow this advice on more than one occasion as I've struggled toward a life of faith. Really, in some sense, it is an everyday struggle.

Believe me, I am not an expert on religions, the Bible, atheism, or any of these topics discussed. I just get very confused and have to sort things out in my own mind with the limited information, sometimes biased, sometimes not, that I have read, heard and even discussed. It seems that no matter which way I think about God, miracles, atheism, etc. someone always seems to give me a somewhat logical explanation to counter my thinking. Therein lies my confusion. All of this humbles me as to which way I should think. Spirituality to me is something everyone has in some form. To me it isn't always tied to a specific religion, but what you "go to" when things are not going well or going very well. Many times that is God (s) in some form of religious belief system. To others it might be humans they trust or believe in. Others it might be science and facts. Others even objects or actions. Others who knows. To me it is from the culture, family, and society in which I was raised, which is a belief in God. That is my "go to" in those non-normal times. I know that may be non-Christian in some people's minds, because I don't pray consistently or attend church regularly or just can't buy that Immacualate Conception. Some may say God is convenient to me, but in reality, in my mind, nothing is further from the truth. But as I keep rolling along, I imagine my thinking will keep being challenged and my beliefs will continue to emerge.

Edited August 6, 201313 yr by Bengal Maniac

I've found the need to follow this advice on more than one occasion as I've struggled toward a life of faith. Really, in some sense, it is an everyday struggle.

 

You're not kidding. I feel the same way.

The age old, "If I'm a Christian and I'm wrong, what do I have to lose? vs. If I'm right, what do you have to lose?"

A spiritual insurance policy.

A spiritual insurance policy.

With premiums already paid.

Honestly, I think a lot of Christians start out that way because they have a fear of going to Hell and they obey the Gospel as a fire insurance guarantee to avoid it. I could not begin to name the number of sermons laced with the fire and brimstone damnation that I sat through as a child, designed solely to condemn the sinner into accepting Jesus out of fear.

 

How much more effective would they have been to preach more about the Gospel (which simply means Good News) of Jesus Christ, and the life of peace that comes with being a member of His kingdom. I became a Christian in my 20's and have grown immensely since then. I have come to appreciate the joys of living under the grace of a loving God, and knowing that I have the blessed assurance of one day being united with Him in the place he has gone to prepare for me.

 

I do not wish to discount the existence of Hell nor the terrible eternal punishment of those who will end up there. I believe Hell is real and just thinking about it scares me to death. However, I no longer see my salvation as a Get Out Of Hell Free card. I'm am not a follower of Christ so that I can avoid Hell, it is so that I can look forward to an eternity in Heaven. And I have learned to enjoy the life afforded me in His grace so that I can enjoy a little bit of Heaven on my way to Heaven.

I became a Christian in my 20's and have grown immensely since then.

 

Were you a Muslim before that?

Were you a Muslim before that?

No, just lost.