Way more people believe that any coach could have won with that team, how silly is that? Check UNC's roster that season.

 

Fortunately Utah upset UNC and UK didn't have to play the Heels...

I thought (and still do think) that Tubby was the man to replace Rick. Heck, he won the National Championship with those kids & I've always personally felt that Rick wouldn't have done that. We can never know that for sure, but a title is a title. That alone, in my opinion, earns Tubby a banner in the Rupp rafters. If he isn't coaching anywhere this season, the people in charge need to be sure that he gets said banner during the 2013-14 season. Tony Delk needs one too, but that's another topic for another day.

 

Having said that, I was also of the opinion that it was time for Tubby to move on when he did. The UK position doesn't seem to be one of longevity & whether it was recruiting laziness or stubbornly standing by mediocre assistants, I felt like Tubby's last couple of years at UK were pretty ho-hum.

Who recruited the 98 team wouldn't matter if Tubby had ever returned to the Final Four. Since he never managed it again (and had plenty of chances), you have to look at what was different about the 1998 team. The obvious answer is that Tubby didn't recruit those guys. He did do an excellent job coaching them for that year though. I don't think anyone argues against that.

 

As for success with his own recruits, UK judges success by Final Fours and National Titles. He failed to reach that level again after 1998. If he wanted accolades for Sweet 16 appearances, he should have gone to IU.

 

And again, nobody is arguing he's not a great PERSON. He may even be a great coach, but his recruiting and team management isn't so great.

 

The bottom line is that if he was truly elite, he wouldn't have gone from UK to Minn to homeless.

 

And falling one game short of the Final Four three other times proves he wasn't able to recruit talent I assume.

And falling one game short of the Final Four three other times proves he wasn't able to recruit talent I assume.

 

 

Of course not. That proves he's excellent at Xs and Os not that he was good at recruiting quality talent.:lol:

Fortunately Utah upset UNC and UK didn't have to play the Heels...

 

WOW.....Is that your argument?

Who recruited the 98 team wouldn't matter if Tubby had ever returned to the Final Four. Since he never managed it again (and had plenty of chances), you have to look at what was different about the 1998 team. The obvious answer is that Tubby didn't recruit those guys. He did do an excellent job coaching them for that year though. I don't think anyone argues against that.

 

As for success with his own recruits, UK judges success by Final Fours and National Titles. He failed to reach that level again after 1998. If he wanted accolades for Sweet 16 appearances, he should have gone to IU.

 

And again, nobody is arguing he's not a great PERSON. He may even be a great coach, but his recruiting and team management isn't so great.

 

The bottom line is that if he was truly elite, he wouldn't have gone from UK to Minn to homeless.

 

Does UK judge success on Final Fours or National Titles? I'm positive that had one of those teams made the Final Four then the anti-Tubby contingent would simple say, "Yea but he didn't win the title."

And falling one game short of the Final Four three other times proves he wasn't able to recruit talent I assume.

 

Of course not. That proves he's excellent at Xs and Os not that he was good at recruiting quality talent.:lol:

 

Does UK judge success on Final Fours or National Titles? I'm positive that had one of those teams made the Final Four then the anti-Tubby contingent would simple say, "Yea but he didn't win the title."

 

Regardless of what you want to attribute it to (recruiting or coaching), Tubby couldn't get back to the Final Four with kids he recruited. That is simply a fact. A decade of getting "close" doesn't cut it at Kentucky. I'm not sure why this is such a contentious subject.

 

Would any of you put Tubby in with Williams, Coach K, Self, Izzo, Boeheim, Pitino, Calipari? Even Billy Donovan, Steve Fisher, Ben Howland, Bob Huggins, Brad Stevens, and Thad Matta have more Final Fours than Tubby.

 

The other active guys with one Final Four? Rick Barnes, John Brady, Tom Crean, Mike Davis, Paul Hewitt, Lon Kruger, Jim Larranaga, Mike Montgomery, Shaka Smart, JTIII, Bruce Weber, and Jay Wright. That is the group he belongs with. Solid coaches, but other than the young guys, not a group that the elite schools are looking to raid.

 

I really don't understand the overwhelming need do defend Tubby. His record is good, but certainly not elite. Maybe Minnesota shouldn't expect more, I don't know. I do know that Kentucky should expect more.

Does UK judge success on Final Fours or National Titles? I'm positive that had one of those teams made the Final Four then the anti-Tubby contingent would simple say, "Yea but he didn't win the title."

 

You see any Elite 8 banners?

 

Regardless of what you want to attribute it to (recruiting or coaching), Tubby couldn't get back to the Final Four with kids he recruited. That is simply a fact. A decade of getting "close" doesn't cut it at Kentucky. I'm not sure why this is such a contentious subject.

 

Would any of you put Tubby in with Williams, Coach K, Self, Izzo, Boeheim, Pitino, Calipari? Even Billy Donovan, Steve Fisher, Ben Howland, Bob Huggins, Brad Stevens, and Thad Matta have more Final Fours than Tubby.

 

The other active guys with one Final Four? Rick Barnes, John Brady, Tom Crean, Mike Davis, Paul Hewitt, Lon Kruger, Jim Larranaga, Mike Montgomery, Shaka Smart, JTIII, Bruce Weber, and Jay Wright. That is the group he belongs with. Solid coaches, but other than the young guys, not a group that the elite schools are looking to raid.

 

I really don't understand the overwhelming need do defend Tubby. His record is good, but certainly not elite. Maybe Minnesota shouldn't expect more, I don't know. I do know that Kentucky should expect more.

 

I'd put Tubby in with the Thad Matta, Steve Fisher, Ben Howland crowd. Just above that third tier you listed.

I thought (and still do think) that Tubby was the man to replace Rick. Heck, he won the National Championship with those kids & I've always personally felt that Rick wouldn't have done that. We can never know that for sure, but a title is a title. That alone, in my opinion, earns Tubby a banner in the Rupp rafters. If he isn't coaching anywhere this season, the people in charge need to be sure that he gets said banner during the 2013-14 season. Tony Delk needs one too, but that's another topic for another day.

 

Having said that, I was also of the opinion that it was time for Tubby to move on when he did. The UK position doesn't seem to be one of longevity & whether it was recruiting laziness or stubbornly standing by mediocre assistants, I felt like Tubby's last couple of years at UK were pretty ho-hum.

Well said. Very fair assessment.

You see any Elite 8 banners?

 

 

When I was at Vandy's gym, I noticed that they hang banners for NCAA Tournament appearances.

 

I BTW always loved Tubby and hated to see him go...there were some fans that never would have given him credit no matter what he did.