Andy Dalton

[75center]

Bet Andy's beginning to think maybe Carson was on to something.

[Voice of Reason]

When the only person you are ahead of is Chad Henne that isn't good....

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/15/third-down-conversions-quarterbacks/

 

That chart points to what has become the biggest concern on Dalton. No, it is NOT arm strength. It is decision making and performance under pressure. He is too tight, puts too much pressure on himself and is reluctant to take risks. He tries to be too fine, too perfect instead of letting receivers make plays, namely AJ Green. I would never over throw AJ Green nor throw a ball out of bounds along the sideline. I would err in the field of play on any long pass and let him make plays.

[futurecoach]

Flacco has outplayed the greats in the playoffs. Dalton has a regular season win over Eli in a year the Giants struggled.

 

This weekend is was a perfect example of why I don't think Dalton is good enough. No matter how many times people say great Defenses can do this or that it's more and more evident that unless you get extremely lucky you have to win a shootout or three to win the Super Bowl. All 4 losing teams this week scored at least 28 points. That's why Harbaugh went away from Alex Smith even though they should have gone to the Super Bowl last year and they have a great Defense. He knew you have to be able to score in bunches to win big. Maybe Dalton will greatly improve and maybe he had a sophomore slump, but my guess is he just isn't good enough to win they way it's necessary to win now.

 

Last year two great defenses were one play each away from being in the Super Bowl and didn't lose because of the opposing QB's making plays. Special teams and a dropped pass killed them. The majority of the time I do admit you need both a good defense and a good QB. We have seen top QB's like Manning not get it done countless times in the playoffs, then the one year his defense got it figured out in the playoffs he won the superbowl. Last year the Giants defense sucked all year, and then played like a great defense in the playoffs. As SSC said Flacco has played to the level of other top QB's in the playoffs when he has had too, to go along with usually having a top defense until this year.

[futurecoach]

When the only person you are ahead of is Chad Henne that isn't good....

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/15/third-down-conversions-quarterbacks/

 

Can't argue that, and if he can't get better on third down then he will never be better than an average QB if even that.

[futurecoach]

Flacco has outplayed the greats in the playoffs. Dalton has a regular season win over Eli in a year the Giants struggled.

 

This weekend is was a perfect example of why I don't think Dalton is good enough. No matter how many times people say great Defenses can do this or that it's more and more evident that unless you get extremely lucky you have to win a shootout or three to win the Super Bowl. All 4 losing teams this week scored at least 28 points. That's why Harbaugh went away from Alex Smith even though they should have gone to the Super Bowl last year and they have a great Defense. He knew you have to be able to score in bunches to win big. Maybe Dalton will greatly improve and maybe he had a sophomore slump, but my guess is he just isn't good enough to win they way it's necessary to win now.

 

Ding Ding Ding!!!! Exactely

 

Flacco may not be flashy, doesn't matter, he scores when they need scores. Flacco has now won a playoff game in every single year as a pro. Dalton has lost every playoff game of his pro career. If it wasn't for Dalton the Texans would probably have 0 playoff wins in their franchise history.

 

How many offensive TD's did the Bengals score just the last month of the season including the playoffs? That is horrible QB play.

 

Now talking about playoffs and QB's, I don't think I've ever enjoyed or seen a better post season performance by a QB than I did this past Saturday and the 49'ers QB. I thought it was even better than the Phill Simms Super Bowl game where he completed all but like 3 passes. Kapernick (*sp) was incredible, he is so much faster than I ever dreamed he could be and it wasn't just his running, he made great throws all game long after his first int of the game. He was impressive to say the least. Yes 1 game doesn't make or break a QB, but I'd like just to see Dalton have half the game he had on Saturday.

 

 

I agree I would take Flacco right now, however to be fair lets look at Flacco's first two years in the playoffs since the playoff stuff is what people have really killed Dalton on. Flacco in his first two years played in 5 postseason games and also made the AFC Championship in one of those years. Any guesses on how good his numbers were those years? Don't worry I have them for you.

 

Here are Flacco’s stats for his first four games in the playoffs and he won 3 of these 4: 37-for-85, 471 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT for a passer rating of 45.8. In one of the wins, Joe was 4-for-10, 34 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT for a QB rating of 10.0.

 

Bengals Blogs | The Bengals Were — And Are — One Year Away

 

I don't know about you all, but sure looks like they were winning in spite of him instead of it being because him. Shoot Dalton's numbers in his playoff games may even be better. So sounds like he was winning because of a great defense and a running game even against top QB's. That 4 for 10 game with 34 yards and an interception came when they beat the Patriots. Sure does not seem like he stepped up in his 1st two years to beat top QB's. He didn't even complete half his throws in any game in his first 4 playoff games. In his 5th playoff game he was 20 of 35 for a 57% completion percentage, 0 touchdowns, 2 interceptions and a QB rating of 48.4 a QBR of 17.7. This was his best game in the 5 games in his first two years and yet the numbers were still terrible and the lost 20 to 3. Basically pretty bad to start his career in the playoff, the team around him was just better than Dalton's. Flacco back then didn't show any signs of one day going pass for pass one day with Brady like he did last year, and then Manning last week. He had one good playoff game in his 3rd season, so it was not until his 4th season which was last year before he started playing actually good in the playoffs. Also What year was it when Brees started playing good? His 4th season.

 

Its easy for people to see how things are now, and forget how people use to be in the past. I still would take Flacco over Dalton but thanks for providing me another guy to show why its to early to say anything about how Dalton will be. Flacco looked nothing more than a game manager who was just winning because of other things on the team not him for his first few years.

Edited January 16, 2013 by futurecoach

[75center]

Dalton improved in almost every category in his second year. Some college QB's come out ready to roll, he's not one of them. I think he's done enought to get the benefit of the doubt and see if he can continue his improvement next year. I believe he will. If he does I see him growing into a better than average QB.

[malachicrunch]

Dalton improved in almost every category in his second year. Some college QB's come out ready to roll, he's not one of them. I think he's done enought to get the benefit of the doubt and see if he can continue his improvement next year. I believe he will. If he does I see him growing into a better than average QB.

 

Improvement from the QB position is an absolute must for the Bengals to take the next step.

[75center]

Agreed although it is obviously not the only thing that will get them to take the next step.

[nkypete]

I would not be surprised to see Dalton digress even more and the Bengals have a losing record in 2013. The schedule includes some very good defensive teams.

[futurecoach]

I would not be surprised to see Dalton digress even more and the Bengals have a losing record in 2013. The schedule includes some very good defensive teams.

 

Heard the same thing before last season. As I talked a lot about before this past season, Dalton played I believe 11 games against top 10 defenses his rookie year and that came without an off season for him and as a rookie. Then this year it was suppose to be well they are playing a tougher schedule and more top QB's and yet they still made the playoffs. So people keep trying to find reasons to think they won't do well, but they keep proving people wrong. Then people act like they were right about them when they lose in the playoffs, when most people didn't even think they get close haha

 

Next year by the looks of things does look to be challenging, especially the home games. Dalton no doubt will have to improve if they even want to make the playoffs again next year.

[SSC]

Dalton lost a playoff game against TJ Yates and another game where his defense got a pick 6 and limited Houston's points. Both years they had a top 10 D as FC loves to point out. At some point it has to be his fault.

[75center]

TJ Yates put up 31 points on that defense and don't forget that Houston also has had a top ten defense the past two years. No doubt Dalton has to improve but there's plenty of blame to go around.

 

Dalton improved quite a bit from year one to year two. If he continues that improvement he'll be ok. I don't think he'll ever be a QB that can take a team on his back and win a game though.

[AverageJoesGym]

Here's a good take on Andy Dalton from Robert Mays of Grantland.com:

 

For Dalton and the Bengals, this becomes problematic. Dalton is an above-average quarterback who, if anything, has outperformed expectations in his two seasons. The problem is that this is likely all he’ll ever be. Having one of these quarterbacks is akin to the treadmill of mediocrity in the NBA. In some respects, being a team that gets the 4- or 5-seed in a conference every year. People are likely to fill the seats, and coaches are likely to keep their jobs, but if the ultimate goal is winning a championship, then what are we really doing here? For teams like Cincinnati and Houston, it should become about finding the NFL equivalent to bottoming out, and the blueprint might be found in two teams that could have ended up stuck in a similar situation.

 

The link to the rest of the article: Curse of the Quarterback Middle Class

[Hellbird]

I agree I would take Flacco right now, however to be fair lets look at Flacco's first two years in the playoffs since the playoff stuff is what people have really killed Dalton on. Flacco in his first two years played in 5 postseason games and also made the AFC Championship in one of those years. Any guesses on how good his numbers were those years? Don't worry I have them for you.

 

Here are Flacco’s stats for his first four games in the playoffs and he won 3 of these 4: 37-for-85, 471 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT for a passer rating of 45.8. In one of the wins, Joe was 4-for-10, 34 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT for a QB rating of 10.0.

 

Bengals Blogs | The Bengals Were — And Are — One Year Away

 

I don't know about you all, but sure looks like they were winning in spite of him instead of it being because him. Shoot Dalton's numbers in his playoff games may even be better. So sounds like he was winning because of a great defense and a running game even against top QB's. That 4 for 10 game with 34 yards and an interception came when they beat the Patriots. Sure does not seem like he stepped up in his 1st two years to beat top QB's. He didn't even complete half his throws in any game in his first 4 playoff games. In his 5th playoff game he was 20 of 35 for a 57% completion percentage, 0 touchdowns, 2 interceptions and a QB rating of 48.4 a QBR of 17.7. This was his best game in the 5 games in his first two years and yet the numbers were still terrible and the lost 20 to 3. Basically pretty bad to start his career in the playoff, the team around him was just better than Dalton's. Flacco back then didn't show any signs of one day going pass for pass one day with Brady like he did last year, and then Manning last week. He had one good playoff game in his 3rd season, so it was not until his 4th season which was last year before he started playing actually good in the playoffs. Also What year was it when Brees started playing good? His 4th season.

 

Its easy for people to see how things are now, and forget how people use to be in the past. I still would take Flacco over Dalton but thanks for providing me another guy to show why its to early to say anything about how Dalton will be. Flacco looked nothing more than a game manager who was just winning because of other things on the team not him for his first few years.

Well here is the problem and maybe it's simply a misunderstanding on my point about Dalton. You continue to compare him to other QB's, I only reply to your comparisons.

 

 

I all along could care less where he stands compared to Brees, Flacco, Eli or Peyton oor even Ryan Leaf. I talk about Dalton and what i see Dalton capable and incapable of doing and have said this from day 1 his rookie year.

And that is this:

Dalton can have great stats due to completing the majority of his passes on 1-5 yard passes. His biggest problems arise from 3 things and that is:

1. Lack of accuracy when throwing down field.

2. Bad decisions when throwing downfield (continuing throwing into double and triple ccoverage)

3. Happy feet, as soon as he feels the slightest pressure he panics and takes off running instead of checking down and finding open recievers.

 

Those 3 things will keep Dalton from ever leading this team to big wins. It doesnt meaan he won't put up decent stats with his short passing game, that is what he did this year. You can have great stats but that doesn't mean you are a great QB. Andy Dalton had better stats this year than last year, but I think he took steps backwards this year compared to last year. Last year Andy was in the pro bowl, this year not even close.

[futurecoach]

Well here is the problem and maybe it's simply a misunderstanding on my point about Dalton. You continue to compare him to other QB's, I only reply to your comparisons.

 

 

I all along could care less where he stands compared to Brees, Flacco, Eli or Peyton oor even Ryan Leaf. I talk about Dalton and what i see Dalton capable and incapable of doing and have said this from day 1 his rookie year.

And that is this:

Dalton can have great stats due to completing the majority of his passes on 1-5 yard passes. His biggest problems arise from 3 things and that is:

1. Lack of accuracy when throwing down field.

2. Bad decisions when throwing downfield (continuing throwing into double and triple ccoverage)

3. Happy feet, as soon as he feels the slightest pressure he panics and takes off running instead of checking down and finding open recievers.

 

Those 3 things will keep Dalton from ever leading this team to big wins. It doesnt meaan he won't put up decent stats with his short passing game, that is what he did this year. You can have great stats but that doesn't mean you are a great QB. Andy Dalton had better stats this year than last year, but I think he took steps backwards this year compared to last year. Last year Andy was in the pro bowl, this year not even close.

 

Which I completely agree with you on the areas Dalton struggles on. Now the people I have used as comparisons people were saying the same things about them after their first few years. People talked about all the things Brees couldn't do because he had never shown he could do the things he ended up finally learning the NFL until year 4. Flacco was just flat out bad in his playoff games his first two seasons, yet had like 3 playoff wins by doing more to hurt the team than help. He was the perfect case of a QB getting to much credit when a team wins, and a QB who gets to much blame when they lose. Dalton has playoff wins even with his performances if he played on the same teams Flacco did early in his career. Sometimes it takes guys awhile to learn the game in the NFL, and it did for Flacco and Brees. Now both of those guys have very good work ethics and the kind of confidence you need to get better, even though they had many flaws early in their careers, especially Brees who the Chargers wanted to replace after this 3rd season because he had done nothing for them. Those flaws you mentioned of Dalton can get better with the more experience and just confidence, and well next year should really show us how his career will go. Next year I even admit is a make or break year for him. Its not like I disagree about the things he struggles with, I just disagree with the fact that some people act like there is no way he can get better. When we see QB's in today's age who did get better even though people thought the samething about them.