No it is not. I have never even said it is a guarntee he will be that good. However you act like its a guarntee he won't ever be better than just average, and so that is for why I talk about Brees. People would have said the samething about Brees after two years, and he is the same type player. Dalton may never end up being better than just average, however it is not impossible like you seem to make it. So which is why Brees is the perfect example, since you talk about his arm being the reason. Dalton throw two years actually has been more successful than Brees. So if Brees can turn it around, then its not impossible for Dalton to. He might never do it though, and I never said it was a for sure thing. It just not right to say it is impossible, just like the majority of the fans on here who have thought it was impossible for the Bengals to be a playoff team the last two years.

 

For the one time it worked out (Brees) there have been 99 times it hasn't (everyone else). I like the chances he turns out to be like the 99. Keep using Brees though as a comparison.

For the one time it worked out (Brees) there have been 99 times it hasn't (everyone else). I like the chances he turns out to be like the 99. Keep using Brees though as a comparison.

 

The problem with him using Brees' argument is the fact that people didn't say Brees was horrible as futurecoach wants you to believe. He was considered a very good QB back then in his 2nd year. I don't know where he gets the idea that people thought Brees was horrible. He is using strawman arguments instead of what really happened.

The problem with him using Brees' argument is the fact that people didn't say Brees was horrible as futurecoach wants you to believe. He was considered a very good QB back then in his 2nd year. I don't know where he gets the idea that people thought Brees was horrible. He is using strawman arguments instead of what really happened.

 

Good point. He was only let go after his injury and it scared the Dolphins away from signing him as a free agent the same season he went to NO. That and the fact he got extremely lucky to go to a dome with a very sharp offensive minded football coach helped Brees become great. Dalton has none of those going for him. Also SD probably made the right call. Rivers led them to some very good seasons including an AFC title game appearance when he played with a torn ACL and a 14-2 season when they were the 1 seed. SF is in a similar situation this year. They were in the NFC title game with Smith last year, they were off to a great start with him this year yet they replaced him b/c of injury and didn't go back to him even though he is fully healthy. Could it be b/c Harbaugh thinks it's tougher to win it all with a game manager?

SSC I know its a long post and you usually don't read it all, but this time you should. So you can see how wrong the person you just agreed with is.

 

before you go agreeing with him you might want to double check on his research. He has a very bad history in regards to his researching things. Which once again his research has led to him saying things that well just are not true. Those numbers he posted did not come in his 2nd year in the NFL, they came in his 4th year in the NFL and 3rd year as a starter. So it took him until his 4th year before he showed any promise at all. Now I must admit I was wrong in my research because I forgot Brees didn't start his rookie year, he became the starter his 2nd year which means after a whole year of learning the game as a rookie. Then two years of being the starter, meaning three years in the NFL he still was not doing very well. Lets not forget it was because of him playing so poorly for three years for why they drafted Rivers. Then during Rivers rookie year, that was the year Brees took off and looked good which was his 4th year in the NFL and 3rd as the starter.

 

I mean I am sure Hellbird will ignore this fact that his research was wrong once again. It took 4 years for Brees to start being known as a good QB in the NFL, and shoot if he was known to be such a good QB the Chargers would have never drafted Rivers because Brees was young himself at the time.

 

Since Brees didn't play his rookie year. We will compare Brees 2nd and 3rd years to Dalton's rookie and 2nd years. Meaning Brees had two full off seasons and a year of learning under his belt before he started playing. While Dalton had only a training camp before he started starting right away, yet Dalton still had better numbers? I will add Brees only played 11 games before injury his 3rd season, but looking at the numbers they were not so good after 11 games.

 

Brees-

2002

SD

16 Comp 320 attempts 526 percentage 60.8 yards 3,284 yards per completion 6.24 touchdowns 17 Interceptions-16 QB Rating- 76.9

2003

SD

11 Comp 205 attempts 356 percentage 57.6 yards 2,108 yards per completion 5.92 touchdowns 11 Interceptions- 15 QB Rating- 67.5

 

Dalton-

2011

CIN

16 Completions 300 attempts 516 percentage 58.1 yards 3,398 yards per completion 6.59 touchdowns 20 Interceptions 13 Rating 80.4

2012

CIN

16 Completions 329 attempts 528 Percentage 62.3 yards 3,669 yards per completion 6.95 touchdown 27 Interceptions 16 Rating 87.4

 

 

I don't know about you all however what I see is Dalton having a better overall completion percentage, more yards each season, a better yards per completion each season, more touchdowns each season, interceptions Dalton was even better than Brees had 16 in just 11 games in his 2nd season, and QB Rating Dalton was better. Yet people believed after Brees's first two years, whoops I mean after Brees's first three years that he was good and progressing? Ha apparently someone else's facts are wrong. You wanted facts Hellbird, here you go since you once again couldn't find the right research and posted Brees's numbers from his 4th year in the NFL. So who is really talking about what really happened? Sure doesn't seem like it is you Hellbird.

 

Dalton probably will never end up being as good as Brees eventually got. Dalton may never even become a top 10 QB. However the comparison is very valid because when it comes to size, arm strength and the things they need to rely on to be good they are very similar. Dalton has actually been better than Brees in his first two seasons than Brees was after 3 seasons in the NFL. So once again it is wrong to act like its impossible for Dalton to become possibly top 10 one day. That is once again not saying Dalton will for sure do that, and remember I have even said if Dalton does not show much improvement next year I even agree that they may need to move on.

Different era. Dalton will never be an all timer. I still think SD made the right choice to get rid of Brees when they did. Brees got really good to great in a different offense indoors. I'd still bet my life savings Dalton never does that as a Bengal. That's why it's always been the dumbest of comparisons. Give me some people he actually has a chance to turn out like and I can take that seriously. Brees or Montana I can't. Alex Smith the last two years I can. If the argument is the defense can become the best in in the league and Dalton will quit throwing picks and hit at a higher percentage I could hope for that. If the argument is he's going to throw for 5000+ yards, 46 TD's and 72% I just can't get there.

Different era. Dalton will never be an all timer. I still think SD made the right choice to get rid of Brees when they did. Brees got really good to great in a different offense indoors. I'd still bet my life savings Dalton never does that as a Bengal. That's why it's always been the dumbest of comparisons. Give me some people he actually has a chance to turn out like and I can take that seriously. Brees or Montana I can't. Alex Smith the last two years I can. If the argument is the defense can become the best in in the league and Dalton will quit throwing picks and hit at a higher percentage I could hope for that. If the argument is he's going to throw for 5000+ yards, 46 TD's and 72% I just can't get there.

 

And no one would have thought that about Brees after three years in the league. I am using someone who is comparable in size, arm strength, when they were drafted in the draft and how they performed their first few years in the league. So how does that not count as a valid comparison in saying that there could be a chance he may just get to be top 10 one day. Once again not saying he will be as good, but if Brees can become a hall of famer then with the same things then Dalton could MAYBE end up as a top 10 and no reason to act like its impossible. And why does it matter if it was a different era? Brees 1st year as a starter he still threw basically the same amount of passes, its not like he didn't throw many passes.

 

Also Hellbird I apologize I read your original post wrong when you said he threw for 3200 yards in his 2nd season, you were right he did I was thinking you meant his second year as a starter. Yet what threw me off was that you said people were considering him good when that was not true yes he threw for 3200 yards but only had 17 touchdowns and 16 interceptions. His QB rating was bad and his completion percentage was not great either. His numbers were very comparable to Dalton and was not trending up, and he showed that the very next season which was his third. In just 11 games he threw 16 interceptions and was just not playing well at all. His numbers his first two years as a starter which was years 2 and 3 for him were not even as good as Dalton, which is what caused them to draft Rivers because people were not viewing Brees as being a good QB like he said.

SSC I know its a long post and you usually don't read it all, but this time you should. So you can see how wrong the person you just agreed with is.

 

before you go agreeing with him you might want to double check on his research. He has a very bad history in regards to his researching things. Which once again his research has led to him saying things that well just are not true. Those numbers he posted did not come in his 2nd year in the NFL, they came in his 4th year in the NFL and 3rd year as a starter.

Wow, you really may need to do your research better. I will give you help if you need it.

\

 

Also Hellbird I apologize I read your original post wrong when you said he threw for 3200 yards in his 2nd season, you were right he did I was thinking you meant his second year as a starter. Yet what threw me off was that you said people were considering him good when that was not true yes he threw for 3200 yards but only had 17 touchdowns and 16 interceptions. His QB rating was bad and his completion percentage was not great either. His numbers were very comparable to Dalton and was not trending up, and he showed that the very next season which was his third. In just 11 games he threw 16 interceptions and was just not playing well at all. His numbers his first two years as a starter which was years 2 and 3 for him were not even as good as Dalton, which is what caused them to draft Rivers because people were not viewing Brees as being a good QB like he said.

You may want to settle down your hate a bit and get off your stupid point when I made a mistake about the Giants. It happens, just as you royally screwed up trying to call me out on the Brees thing. We are even in misinformation now you can drop it before you look worse.

 

Brees wasn't considered a bust after 2 years and still don't know why you are stuck on that. He was a pro bowler only 2 years after his 2nd year and had a rating of 104 while with the Chargers. There is a huge difference in Brees in his 2nd year and Dalton in his 2nd year. Brees wouldn't consistently miss wide open receivers as Dalton does, Brees also didn't have happy feet in the pocket nor did he panic when he felt pressure. Dalton is doing all of that. Do me a favor and do go to Lance or Mo Eggers blog on ESPN 1530, there are links after links about articles on Daltons play and they all say the same thing, he isn't very good.

 

Something you may never understand is numbers are not everything. Looking at Dalton's numbers without ever seeing him play one like yourself would think he's a very good QB. What the numbers don't tell you is the fact he lives and dies off of 1-5 yard dump passes. What the numbers also don't tell you is he continually misses throws down field of 20+ yards and what the numbers also don't tell you is he led the league or was one of the top couple with pick 6's this year.

 

Andy Dalton his rookie year looked more comfortable in the pocket than he has this year imo and his play has shown that. What you also fail to admit is that this year Andy also had more int's than he did his first year where he was the starter at the beginning of the year.

The Bengals will just be stuck with Dalton for a couple of years. Other glaring deficiencies will need to be addressed. As far as Saturday's debacle, how in your right mind do you not even look at AJ Green one time in the 1st half??

The Bengals will just be stuck with Dalton for a couple of years. Other glaring deficiencies will need to be addressed. As far as Saturday's debacle, how in your right mind do you not even look at AJ Green one time in the 1st half??

 

And to think there are some that think Jay Gruden should be a HC.

 

Not only do you not even target AJ in the first half, and Dalton can't use the excuse saying he wasn't open because Dalton always throws to him when he is being double covered etc. But what is worse is you only gun Ben Jarvis-Green 3 times in the first half and he runs for over 40 yards, yet you don't give him anymore runs and only run it a total of 4 times the entire half?!?! Then to make it even worse you end up with -6 yards passing in that half. That is pathetic and not only should Gruden of been fired along with Marvin for letting that happen but Dalton should of been benched.

^Apparently Arizona and Philly both think he's good enough or they wouldn't be wasting their time interviewing him this week. :lol:

^Apparently Arizona and Philly both think he's good enough or they wouldn't be wasting their time interviewing him this week. :lol:

 

They can have him

Wow, you really may need to do your research better. I will give you help if you need it.

 

My research showed me that Dalton was better after two season in the NFL than Brees was after 3 seasons in the NFL. Didn't you just in another post tell me to go look up the numbers? I did do that and now you tell me numbers aren't everything now that you see Brees's numbers were worst. I watch Brees when he was with the Chargers and in his first 3 years he was not that good and looked worst than Dalton. I am sure if you asked San Diego fans what they thought of Brees after 3 seasons they would have told you the same thing that they didn't think he was good and wanted him gone and was happy when they drafted Rivers. That is because Brees was not consistent he was not accurate he was missing passes, and doing all this when teams were focusing on the run to stop LT. Shoot didn't LT set a record for receptions in a season with Brees as the QB during LT's 2nd season? Meaning Brees best pass was a dump off pass, and he still didn't have that good of a completion percentage. You talk about me looking through orange shaded glasses and how you are realistic. Yet when you clearly are not when you act like people thought Brees was good after 3 seasons.Brees didn't become good until they got Rivers in his 4th season, and maybe that competition of knowing they were wanting to replace him got him motivated to step up his game. Which maybe that would be a good thing to do with Dalton, make him know that his spot is not guarnteed.

 

By the way I didn't mess up the facts that I posted on information like you did, the facts I posted were very true. However I did admit I messed up in reading your post, and even went on to apologize for it before you even had to say anything about it. While you still continued to go on to say the Giants had a losing record after I told you they didn't. You continued to go on and kept saying I said the Bengals were great, which I never did. You now have gone on and said that I keep talking about the Bengals going to the playoffs 4 out of the last 10 years to support my argument, when I have clearly talked about the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years. I mean you keep continuing to talk about things that are just not that, and I at least was able to admit that I messed up without you even having to tell me. I admit when I am wrong, seems like you have a hard time with that. Just like it was funny when you said that I kept being wrong about the Bengals. When basically you can ask every poster on this board that I been one of the only people right when it comes to the success of the Bengals the last two seasons. Then even in this playoff game I never said that they would win, so once again how was I wrong there? But nice try.

And to think there are some that think Jay Gruden should be a HC.

 

Not only do you not even target AJ in the first half, and Dalton can't use the excuse saying he wasn't open because Dalton always throws to him when he is being double covered etc. But what is worse is you only gun Ben Jarvis-Green 3 times in the first half and he runs for over 40 yards, yet you don't give him anymore runs and only run it a total of 4 times the entire half?!?! Then to make it even worse you end up with -6 yards passing in that half. That is pathetic and not only should Gruden of been fired along with Marvin for letting that happen but Dalton should of been benched.

 

Now I agree with you Gruden's game plan for that game was HORRIBLE!!

Now I agree with you Gruden's game plan for that game was HORRIBLE!!

 

Now it has come out that he wanted to use AJ as a "Decoy" in that game and is why he wasn't targeted. If that doesn't show true ignorance then nothing does. So we want to take our best player out of the game so we can use a TE who can't catch a cold and another WR who has shown no big play possibilities. Makes perfect sense if you are part of the Bengals organization.

 

So the Bengals used AJ Green as a decoy and the rest of the NFL used the Cincinnati Bengals as a decoy to other fans to actually let them believe Cincinnati was an actual NFL caliber team. Both plans failed miserably