Andy Dalton

[Hellbird]

Next year I even admit is a make or break year for him. Its not like I disagree about the things he struggles with, I just disagree with the fact that some people act like there is no way he can get better. When we see QB's in today's age who did get better even though people thought the samething about them.

What I have a problem with is always comparing him to other QB's. That is the jest of this entire debate. Next year is a make or break season for him, I agree, but when you say people say he will never get better isn't entirely true. What I and some others have said is we don't think he will be as good as some of the QB's you keep comparing him to.

 

Andy Dalton is Andy Dalton and shouldn't be compared to anyone. LOets see if he improves. I just don't think his improvements wont be as much as some think. I didn't see him improve in any of the areas of concern I had for him from his rookie season and actually saw him digress his second year which is why I don't believe he wwill improve enough to be a difference maker on this team and that is what we need. I just don't see the confidence he had when he was a rookie, he took steps backwards this year I thought and seems to panic quicker in the pocket which isn't good.

[futurecoach]

What I have a problem with is always comparing him to other QB's. That is the jest of this entire debate. Next year is a make or break season for him, I agree, but when you say people say he will never get better isn't entirely true. What I and some others have said is we don't think he will be as good as some of the QB's you keep comparing him to.

 

Andy Dalton is Andy Dalton and shouldn't be compared to anyone. LOets see if he improves. I just don't think his improvements wont be as much as some think. I didn't see him improve in any of the areas of concern I had for him from his rookie season and actually saw him digress his second year which is why I don't believe he wwill improve enough to be a difference maker on this team and that is what we need. I just don't see the confidence he had when he was a rookie, he took steps backwards this year I thought and seems to panic quicker in the pocket which isn't good.

 

Which I agree with you that he won't be as good as the people I mentioned, and never once did I say he would be. So what have we been doing this whole time then, if we agree on that? Haha. I first started this with SSC because from the moment Dalton was drafted SSC never thought he could be more than average because of his arm, and talking about how the arm is a concern or else he wouldn't have fell to the 2nd round. Hence where the Brees comparison started, because Brees also fell to the 2nd round because of his size and arm strength even though he was great in college. Then yes after not only his first 2 years but his first 3 years, he was average at best and people didn't have hope for him. Including his own team with how much he struggled his 3rd season even before getting hurt and Flutie taking his job. They drafted Rivers because of him looking like he would be nothing special, and then Rivers rookie year he held out and Brees kept his job and well the rest is history because Brees tore it up in that 4th season and basically been great since. Now I have never said Dalton will be as good, but if Dalton who has been as good if not better than Brees was in his first 3 seasons. Then if Brees can turn it around to be a a future hall of famer, then Dalton could possibly at least end up as a top 10 QB in this league one day. However for it to happen he would have to improve in the areas that we agree he struggles at. Can he do it? We shall see and this third year should give us a good clue if its possible for him.

[SSC]

Dalton isn't good enough to compete in a game like this. Sorry. He just isn't. Won't be either.

[malachicrunch]

Who was drafted right after Dalton?

[SSC]

FC you've also said you don't expect him to be as good as Brees but you've brought up Brees 1000 times. It's the dumbest argument ever. He can't be this good but one guy ever had a weaker arm and fell that is good so Dalton might get good but not that good.

[Hellbird]

Which I agree with you that he won't be as good as the people I mentioned, and never once did I say he would be. So what have we been doing this whole time then, if we agree on that? Haha. I first started this with SSC because from the moment Dalton was drafted SSC never thought he could be more than average because of his arm, and talking about how the arm is a concern or else he wouldn't have fell to the 2nd round. Hence where the Brees comparison started, because Brees also fell to the 2nd round because of his size and arm strength even though he was great in college. Then yes after not only his first 2 years but his first 3 years, he was average at best and people didn't have hope for him. Including his own team with how much he struggled his 3rd season even before getting hurt and Flutie taking his job. They drafted Rivers because of him looking like he would be nothing special, and then Rivers rookie year he held out and Brees kept his job and well the rest is history because Brees tore it up in that 4th season and basically been great since. Now I have never said Dalton will be as good, but if Dalton who has been as good if not better than Brees was in his first 3 seasons. Then if Brees can turn it around to be a a future hall of famer, then Dalton could possibly at least end up as a top 10 QB in this league one day. However for it to happen he would have to improve in the areas that we agree he struggles at. Can he do it? We shall see and this third year should give us a good clue if its possible for him.

You continue to bring up Brees which means you continue to compare Dalton to Brees.

 

Ok, let's end the comparison you love with this......Even if Brees wasn't considered good like yopu keep stating, at least Brees could do something Dalton can't and that is hit a wide open reciever down field....and Brees did that in not only his rookie year, but years 2 and 3 also. Something Dalton continues to struggle with which is why I've said he's not very good.

[futurecoach]

You continue to bring up Brees which means you continue to compare Dalton to Brees.

 

Ok, let's end the comparison you love with this......Even if Brees wasn't considered good like yopu keep stating, at least Brees could do something Dalton can't and that is hit a wide open reciever down field....and Brees did that in not only his rookie year, but years 2 and 3 also. Something Dalton continues to struggle with which is why I've said he's not very good.

 

So since you say that I bring up Brees that means I am comparing and your right? Ok then. I continued understand your line of thinking, if I just bring up Brees stats, and not say what I brought up. I could understand your line of thinking if I said that since Dalton had better numbers early in his career and that since Brees ended up being a hall of famer that means Dalton will be a hall of famer too. However I have done neither of those things, even though as much as you probably wish I would have said that to help validate your argument. I have clearly said why I have brought up Brees from the very beginning, and that was because SSC acting like since he has some flaws that means he probably won't be good one day. He also always mentioned how that shows by him falling to the 2nd round. Guess what all the same things were said about Brees, and yes Brees was not that good after his first 3 seasons before he turned it on. Thus the reason for the comparison and how it shows that falling in the draft because of not having some certain things does not mean you can't go on to be good and in Brees's case great. Once again another failed effort by you, but nice try again.

 

As for you continuing to act like I was the only one who thought Brees wasn't good, will you please show me otherwise. Brees was not hitting those passes like you seem to think. Or I get it for why you think he was good, he must have been great at hitting the guy in the chest when tossing on the sideline his rookie year when he played one game, but you act like he showed it his rookie year too haha. Maybe you keep thinking about his 4th year when he finally did great and then in his 5th year he did great again and then hurt his arm on the last game which is why San Diego let him go. However his first 3 years he was not viewed as good, his own team thought that, and the majority of people thought that. So if you are going to continue on acting like I was the only one thinking he wasn't good after 3 seasons, will you please show me how I am wrong in that thinking? I have shown you multiple things that showed I was not the only one who shared that thinking, can you please show me where all these other people shared your thinking in that he was good after his first 3 seasons. Or is it just your opinion, and so it helps you out more by acting like your opinion stands for the majority haha.

[Voice of Reason]

When you look in BGP for a definition of this :deadhorse:, they automatically link you to this thread.

[futurecoach]

When you look in BGP for a definition of this :deadhorse:, they automatically link you to this thread.

 

Very true, I think it should be a classic.

[nkypete]

I see the NFL at a crossroads with offensive styles. How many will try to install the "read option" (Kaepernick, RGIII, Newton, Wilson) or stick with the traditional Pro style (Flacco, Manning, Ryan, Brady, Luck)? I think both work with the appropriate personnel (not just the QB). I think it puts pressure on GMs (under the influence of impatient owners and fans) to draft and pick up free agents that fit one or the other scheme. Misfitting players into the wrong system would be bad. Getting back to the Bengals and Dalton. Since Gruden runs the West Coast offense, I'm not sure the Bengals have the right fit of players on offense (even though many are very talented). Maybe Sanu helps next year. They need more than Green on offense and I am pessimistic about Dalton. I think we've seen his peak. I hope I'm wrong.