All A Classic - Getting Away From It's Roots?

[footballfever]

jackson county with over 650 students grades 9-12 and corbin close to 600 students in all A...doesnt seem fair for the schools that have 100, 200 students..but as in everything else $$$$$$$

[password]

HDE,

 

Here are your facts although I'm not sure what you are arguing.

 

The All-A was started in 1980 by a couple of NKY coaches including Stan Steidel of Dayton High (who lived two blocks from me) for NKY small school teams. There were 8 teams all from NKY the first year. In 1981 their were 10 teams all from NKY. From 1982 to 1989 the tourney featured those 10 NKY teams versus 6 teams from "downstate". That is when it became increasingly difficult to get teams to come into NKY because of the cost and the length of stay versus money generated.

In 1990 the tournament was expanded to include all 16 regions with each region sending their winner to Lexington at that time.

 

The cutoff for enrollment was 425 in grades 10-12 in 1990 and according to you allowed 120-130 teams to compete.

 

The enrollment cutoff is listed as 425 in grades 10-12 now and according to the All-A 125 of the 127 teams eligible will compete in 2003.

 

So what teams do you want excluded?

[92Tiger]

Password, I think you are mistaken when you say all 3 private schools have won all the 9th region All 'A' Tourney's. In the first one (1990) Walton dominated and I believe went onto the semifinals of the State Tourney that year

[password]

Walton Verona (who was in the 9th region then) did win in 1990 and lost in the quarterfinals. Not all the 9th region teams participated that year as teams had games already scheduled.

[HDE]

The history of the All 'A' is pretty well documented. It began as an invitational tournament and then was expanded statewide. You can read that in any of the All "A" Classic programs. Harlan played in one of the first tournaments in the mid 80s when Billy Hicks coached there.

 

My argument is you questioning the fact that the All "A" used the KHSAA football cutoff numbers for grades 10-12 in 1990. It's on page 46 of the 1990-91 KHSAA handbook if you can find one. The tournament was based on the schools that qualify for Class A in football in the beginning (1990) and now it's not. I'm curious to see if you're going to admit your mistake.

 

Several schools have closed since 1990 but they've been replaced by larger schools (Jackson County and Corbin for example) that have no business in the All "A" Classic.

[password]

According to you nothing has changed about the All-A enrollment from the time it went statewide (1990 425 or less in grade 10-12) to now (2003 425 or less in grade 10=12)

 

120 to 130 schools then, 120-130 schools now. Are you telling me there were that many schools (minus the ones that do not play football) playing in class A football in 1990?

[HDE]

Originally posted by password

[And if you are correct in your KHSAA 1990 numbers (I don't think you are, I think it was 424 students in 9-12) all the above teams would be Class A in football. [/b]

 

 

You said I was incorrect about my facts but you don't want to check with someone who knows, or maybe you have and didn't like the answer.

 

There are approximately 216 schools playing football statewide with 54 in Class A. There are approximately 65 schools that don't offer football that play basketball. All but five or six ( I would guess) of those would probably qualify as Class A if they did have football teams. Anywhere from 110 to 120 schools would qualify for the All "A" Classic now if the numbers were adjusted as they should have been.

[password]

54 in Class A football plus 65 not playing football (taking your word on this) is 119.

 

The All-A has 127 eligible teams this year.

 

What 8 teams do you want kicked out of the All-A?

[HDE]

You're starting to get the idea. There are only 10 or 12 teams, probably, that shouldn't be there. I don't have the time tonight to pick those teams out for you (except the two I mentioned) but I'm sure it wouldn't be extremely hard. The All "A" Classic people just need to find a more realistic number (based on 9-12 enrollments instead of 10-12), between 450 and 550 students. Teams that aren't dropping to Class A in football should not be dropping into the All "A" Classic.

 

What about that football breakdown in 1990? Have you asked Stan Steidel yet where they got their original number for qualifying?

[password]

Jackson County is listed as having 404 students in 10-12 in the 2002 All-A. I agree they should not be eligible if they exceed 425 but if they are still ata 404 why should they go?

[HDE]

Jackson County is listed with 675 students in the KHSAA Handbook in grades 9-12, which is why the All "A" should use 9-12 numbers like the KHSAA figured out over a decade ago. Almost all of the schools in Kentucky now are 9-12.

 

Some schools tend to have higher dropout rates and often have big freshman classes that aren't counted by the All "A" rules.

[password]

Well the high possibility of a high dropout rate and larger Frosh classes is something we agree on.

 

I still find it hard to believe a school of 675 would have less than 425 in grade 10-12. If all the classes were equal that would be 168 in each class. That would be 504 in classes 10-12. So if they have 404 in Class 10-12 that would mean a Frosh class of about 270. You would know better than me but is that possible?

[HDE]

Very possible and not at all unusual from what I've seen in the past.

 

So how do you feel about using 9-12 numbers instead of 10-12? Why should schools be based on grades 10-12 when there probably aren't five schools in the state that have only grades 10-12.

[password]

I agree with you on that. I would imagine it is done because schools need to make out schedules before they know how many students that will have that year. The number for Class A football is now 543. So if Bayside High is on the bubble they would not know if they are going to have 535 kids and be in the All-A or 560 and be out until August and that is too late for the B-ball schedule. I guess if you go 10-12 the theory is you can make a good guess how many you will have by taking last years 9, 10, and 11 classes.

[HDE]

You would never have to guess on something like that because some people (I know this is shocking) may not be honest.

 

You would go with numbers recorded by the Kentucky Department of Education at a certain date (Sept. 1 or Oct. 1) for a two- or four-year period. If you were below the number on that magical date (whatever is chosen) you would remain in the tournament or out of the tournament until the next realignment, like in football.