August 16, 201115 yr I think I should have reversed Bonds and A-Rod on my list. Good thread...nice job UKMF. I agree, fun thread.
August 16, 201115 yr Lets not sell Thome short, I believe he got to 600 with the second fewest AB's on the list. Not saying I would have him very high on this list but he isnt as far off from these guys as most think (most meaning media Ive listened to today).
August 16, 201115 yr If you are going to knock guys for not being clean. Doesn't it make sense to at least consider the fact Ruth didn't have to play against many of the best players of his era? Let's not forget Ruth played in the "Dead Ball" era, and reached 600 hrs in fewer ABs than anyone else. Ever...
August 16, 201115 yr Here is my take: 1. Ruth - As camel said above, perhaps the most important player in baseball history. He changed how the game is played and so dominated his time that his record stayed on the books for 40 years. 2. Aaron - I really am tempted to put Mays here but the numbers don't lie. The only reason anyone could put Mays above Aaron is defense perhaps or flair over production, because the numbers clearly put Aaron above May. 3. Mays - Great numbers, all around play, athleticism and defense are going to put him at 3 for me. 4. Junior - Like Mays in the great all around player category and he was clean in the dirty era. 5. Thome - I hate to put the admitted roid boys ahead of him. Without roids, Bonds and A -Rod would likely both be above him, but who knows for sure? 6. Bonds - Best of the roiders. 7. A-Rod 8. Sosa - Wouldn't even be here without roids.
August 16, 201115 yr Thome has never finished above 4th in his league's respective MVP voting or any type of transcendent talent. Just primarily a swing from the heels player that has hung around to build his #s. Just because he has not been linked to PEDs, it does not mean I am going to elevate his stature.
August 17, 201115 yr If we're talking total package, including defense, I'll go: 1) Willie Mays 2)Hank Aaron 3) Ken Griffey Jr. 4) Babe Ruth 5) Barry Bonds 6) Alex Rodriguez 8) Jim Thome 8) Sammy Sosa If we're talking most feared hitter, it changes. 1) Babe Ruth 2)Barry Bonds 3) Hank Aaron 3) Willie Mays 5) Ken Griffey Jr. 6) Alex Rodriguez 7) Sammy Sosa 8) Jim Thome
August 17, 201115 yr If we're talking most feared hitter, it changes. 1) Babe Ruth 2)Barry Bonds 3) Hank Aaron 3) Willie Mays 5) Ken Griffey Jr. 6) Alex Rodriguez 7) Sammy Sosa 8) Jim Thome If it's based on fear of the hitter, I'd have to take Barry Bonds. The amount of walks and intentional walks that guy would draw was ridiculous and and unmatched. Granted that concept probably wasn't even remotely thought of when Ruth played.
August 17, 201115 yr If we're talking total package, including defense, I'll go: 1) Willie Mays 2)Hank Aaron 3) Ken Griffey Jr. 4) Babe Ruth 5) Barry Bonds 6) Alex Rodriguez 8) Jim Thome 8) Sammy Sosa If we're talking most feared hitter, it changes. 1) Babe Ruth 2)Barry Bonds 3) Hank Aaron 3) Willie Mays 5) Ken Griffey Jr. 6) Alex Rodriguez 7) Sammy Sosa 8) Jim Thome Wouldn't ARod receive a bump for defense? He was pretty good defensively at a premium position for the first half of his career and probably would have added a few more if he hadn't of gotten traded to the Yankees. Also people tend to forget that while it wasn't a premium position Bonds was an excellent defender for roughly the first half of his career. Seems a little corrective history to give Griffey such a bump for the first half of his career and not afford the same to Bonds and ARod who had similar defensive archs.
August 17, 201115 yr Wouldn't ARod receive a bump for defense? He was pretty good defensively at a premium position for the first half of his career and probably would have added a few more if he hadn't of gotten traded to the Yankees. Also people tend to forget that while it wasn't a premium position Bonds was an excellent defender for roughly the first half of his career. Seems a little corrective history to give Griffey such a bump for the first half of his career and not afford the same to Bonds and ARod who had similar defensive archs. Agree, but neither of those could hold a candle to Jr. in the field. He was considered the very best at his position for a long period of time. Can't say the same for either of the other 2. Jr. is still the best defensive outfielder I've ever seen.
August 17, 201115 yr Agree, but neither of those could hold a candle to Jr. in the field. He was considered the very best at his position for a long period of time. Can't say the same for either of the other 2. Jr. is still the best defensive outfielder I've ever seen.Since we are using "considered the very best" let's look at Gold Gloves. Griffey won 10 of them with his last coming 11 years before his career was over. Bonds won 8 Gold Gloves with the last coming 8 years before his career was over. To be clear, I am not in any way saying Bonds was the caliber of fielder Griffey was. But the bump seems a little much for Griffey when Bonds was definitely an elite fielder for the the "first half" of his career just as Griffey was. They both saw declines in their fielding abilities in the second half of their career for whatever reasons. But my main point is there are a lot of similarities in their defensive abilities throughout their careers.
August 17, 201115 yr Since we are using "considered the very best" let's look at Gold Gloves. Griffey won 10 of them with his last coming 11 years before his career was over. Bonds won 8 Gold Gloves with the last coming 8 years before his career was over. To be clear, I am not in any way saying Bonds was the caliber of fielder Griffey was. But the bump seems a little much for Griffey when Bonds was definitely an elite fielder for the the "first half" of his career just as Griffey was. They both saw declines in their fielding abilities in the second half of their career for whatever reasons. But my main point is there are a lot of similarities in their defensive abilities throughout their careers. In your approach, you seem to measuring it as though all Gold Gloves are equal. Griffey gets a bigger bump from defense because of his playing such a critical position on the field.
August 17, 201115 yr In your approach, you seem to measuring it as though all Gold Gloves are equal. Griffey gets a bigger bump from defense because of his playing such a critical position on the field.If critical position is such a key factor then why doesn't ARod receive a similar bump? He played SS at a Gold Glove level for the first half of his career. I'd argue that SS is an even more critical defensive postion than CF and much, much harder to get an elite slugger at.
August 17, 201115 yr Wins Above Replacement 1. Babe Ruth - 172.0 (1) 2. Barry Bonds - 171.8 (2) 3. Willie Mays - 154.7 (4) 4. Hank Aaron - 141.6 (5) 5. Alex Rodriguez - 105.4 (18) 6. Ken Griffey Jr. - 78.5 (39) 7. Jim Thome - 71.1 (53) 8. Sammy Sosa - 59.7 (111) I get two things from this. 1. A name sticks out as being awfully low compared to perceived value in this thread. :sssh: 2. There seems to be a very clear top 4. *Overall rank in parentheses.
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