August 16, 201115 yr Author I was not aware of that. But the fact that Griffey caused you to follow the Reds of all teams makes the bias even stronger. I've never said I wasn't biased towards Griffey. :lol:
August 16, 201115 yr I'm not really sure what color has to do with hitting?Color has nothing to do with it. But, don't you think you could hit easier if you didn't have to face any of these guys? Felix Hernandez Ubaldo Jimenez CC Sabathia David Price Johnny Cueto Anibal Sanchez Ervin Santana Yovani Gallardo Ricky Romero Also, I bet a lot more balls drop if guys like Carl Crawford, Ichiro, Adrian Beltre, Matt Kemp, Michael Bourn, and Brandon Phillips aren't in the field.
August 16, 201115 yr I've never said I wasn't biased towards Griffey. :lol: :lol: :lol: That's all I was trying to get to.
August 16, 201115 yr He's referring to the quality of pitchers he would have been facing. I don't really feel like race plays a whole lot of factor in pitching ability as it seems to play in other sports (NFL & NBA). I mean took at the top 20 pitchers that have a chance of making it to 300 wins according to this article. 15/20 are White? Maybe I'm off on this but I don't feel as though race plays much a factor in how good of a pitcher you are... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/579494-the-top-20-active-pitchers-with-the-best-shot-at-300-wins#/articles/579494-the-top-20-active-pitchers-with-the-best-shot-at-300-wins
August 16, 201115 yr Or if he played in the cookie cutter ballparks that today's players have the luxury of. I'd quote the study of the guy who plotted out out his fly outs, but I don't remember the exact numbers. I'm sure many of you know the one I'm talking about. Apparently it didn't help many other guys... Ruth's first HR title came in 1918 when he tied for the MLB lead with 11. Here's some of the following years, when Ruth lead the league and the second place guy. 1919 - Ruth (29), Cravath (12) = +17 1920 - Ruth (54), Sisler (19) = +35 1921 - Ruth (59), Williams, Meusel (24) = +35 1924 - Ruth (46), Hauser (27) = +19 1926 - Ruth (47), Wilson (21) = +26 1927 - Ruth (60), Gehrig (47) = +13 1928 - Ruth (54), Wilson (31) = +23 He didn't just hit more HR's than the rest, he was in another stratosphere. You could have halved his HR's and he'd still have won at least four HR titles in his career. Who wins HR titles by a +35 margin?
August 16, 201115 yr Also, I bet a lot more balls drop if guys like Carl Crawford, Ichiro, Adrian Beltre, Matt Kemp, Michael Bourn, and Brandon Phillips aren't in the field. Balls dropping? I thought we were talking about Home Runs? lol. Speaking of Home Runs, guys like Griffey used to rob them from people, don't think the Sultan of Swat did that too many times (Disclaimer: I'd take Ruth over Griffey too.) I just enjoy the discussion.
August 16, 201115 yr Apparently it didn't help many other guys... Ruth's first HR title came in 1918 when he tied for the MLB lead with 11. Here's some of the following years, when Ruth lead the league and the second place guy. 1919 - Ruth (29), Cravath (12) = +17 1920 - Ruth (54), Sisler (19) = +35 1921 - Ruth (59), Williams, Meusel (24) = +35 1924 - Ruth (46), Hauser (27) = +19 1926 - Ruth (47), Wilson (21) = +26 1927 - Ruth (60), Gehrig (47) = +13 1928 - Ruth (54), Wilson (31) = +23 He didn't just hit more HR's than the rest, he was in another stratosphere. You could have halved his HR's and he'd still have won at least four HR titles in his career. Right, I was bringing it up in reference to today's players. I dont' remember the name of the article, but if I remember right, he projected that Ruth would have hit over 1,000 HR's if he played his games in the average size of today's park...but my memory could be off.
August 16, 201115 yr He's speaking in terms of the fact that when Ruth played African-Americans and foreign players weren't playing. Think of the talent that would be excluded from today's game (both hitters and pitchers), if it were that way still. He's referring to the quality of pitchers he would have been facing.:thumb: :thumb: Exactly. Hell, if the game had always been segregated there are some who think Josh Gibson would be #1 on this list.
August 16, 201115 yr Balls dropping? I thought we were talking about Home Runs? lol. Speaking of Home Runs, guys like Griffey used to rob them from people, don't think the Sultan of Swat did that too many times (Disclaimer: I'd take Ruth over Griffey too.) I just enjoy the discussion. As do I. So, in response, I'd just say that the Sultan would take the mound with his career 2.28 ERA so his CF didn't have to rob HR's.
August 16, 201115 yr Right, I was bringing it up in reference to today's players. I dont' remember the name of the article, but if I remember right, he projected that Ruth would have hit over 1,000 HR's if he played his games in the average size of today's park...but my memory could be off. He'd have probably hit over 900 anyway if he hadn't pitched for 6 years.
August 16, 201115 yr I don't really feel like race plays a whole lot of factor in pitching ability as it seems to play in other sports (NFL & NBA). I mean took at the top 20 pitchers that have a chance of making it to 300 wins according to this article. 15/20 are White? Maybe I'm off on this but I don't feel as though race plays much a factor in how good of a pitcher you are... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/579494-the-top-20-active-pitchers-with-the-best-shot-at-300-wins#/articles/579494-the-top-20-active-pitchers-with-the-best-shot-at-300-wins You are GREATLY missing the point here. I'm not saying race plays ANY factor. I'm purely stating that a ton of very good players weren't allowed to play with Ruth. And to think this didn't boost his stats some is being pretty naive.
August 16, 201115 yr Balls dropping? I thought we were talking about Home Runs? lol. Speaking of Home Runs, guys like Griffey used to rob them from people, don't think the Sultan of Swat did that too many times (Disclaimer: I'd take Ruth over Griffey too.) I just enjoy the discussion. Where did I say that Ruth's HR totals were the only thing affected? I'm talking about AVG, OPS, RUNS, RBI'S---the whole package.
August 16, 201115 yr Apparently it didn't help many other guys... Ruth's first HR title came in 1918 when he tied for the MLB lead with 11. Here's some of the following years, when Ruth lead the league and the second place guy. 1919 - Ruth (29), Cravath (12) = +17 1920 - Ruth (54), Sisler (19) = +35 1921 - Ruth (59), Williams, Meusel (24) = +35 1924 - Ruth (46), Hauser (27) = +19 1926 - Ruth (47), Wilson (21) = +26 1927 - Ruth (60), Gehrig (47) = +13 1928 - Ruth (54), Wilson (31) = +23 He didn't just hit more HR's than the rest, he was in another stratosphere. You could have halved his HR's and he'd still have won at least four HR titles in his career. Who wins HR titles by a +35 margin? This is what makes it only a slight demotion for me (if any really). Ruth was absolutely dominant over his peers.
August 16, 201115 yr I think I should have reversed Bonds and A-Rod on my list. Good thread...nice job UKMF.
August 16, 201115 yr You are GREATLY missing the point here. I'm not saying race plays ANY factor. I'm purely stating that a ton of very good players weren't allowed to play with Ruth. And to think this didn't boost his stats some is being pretty naive. Well then why don't you just use the quality of pitching in general is ridiculously better? If hispanics and blacks were allowed to play with Ruth back then, the quality of play trumps that all day, anyway...imo.
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