Seriously, Bonds at 8?

 

 

Don't really like Bonds, and if I'm ranking them then I'm taking all into consideration. He wasn't a very liked person towards the end and the constant/obvious steroid speculation didn't help much. IMO his last years helped destroy baseball.

 

Considering he has some guy named Mayes...it doesn't surprise me. :lol:

 

 

Sorry for the misspell I was at work and not really supposed to be on here so I was trying to type as quick as I could..haha

Don't really like Bonds, and if I'm ranking them then I'm taking all into consideration. He wasn't a very liked person towards the end and the constant/obvious steroid speculation didn't help much. IMO his last years helped destroy baseball.

 

 

 

 

Sorry for the misspell I was at work and not really supposed to be on here so I was trying to type as quick as I could..haha

Just messing with you man. :lol:

Shocked again that Griffey is ranked above Aaron.

 

Griffey (22 Seasons): 1662 R, 630 HR, 1836 RBI, 184 SB, 0.284 BA, 0.370 OBP, 0.538 SLG, 0.907 OPS, and 78.5 WAR.

 

Aaron (23 Seasons): 2174 R, 755 HR, 2297 RBI, 240 SB, 0.305 BA, 0.374 OBP, 0.555 SLG, 0.928 OPS, and 141.6 WAR.

 

Not very close...

 

Hank Aaron is the most underrated player in the history of baseball. He is always lost in the debate, in the shadows of Mays and guys of his era.

Defense, regardless of how good it was played, doesn't elevate Griffey above a guy like Babe Ruth? And, if it does, why doesn't Ruth get a significant bump for winning 94 games with a 2.28 ERA as a pitcher? I would say pitching is the most important position defensively speaking, even more important than CF.

Or if he played in the cookie cutter ballparks that today's players have the luxury of. I'd quote the study of the guy who plotted out out his fly outs, but I don't remember the exact numbers. I'm sure many of you know the one I'm talking about.

 

Wasn't the right field porch at both the Polo Grounds and Yankee Stadium pretty close? I'm not saying that he isn't reputed for hitting mammoth blasts, but he didn't just play in cavernous fields.

Wonder if we add pitching stats, who comes out ahead?

For those of you discounting Ruth's accomplishments because the league was segregated, don't forget that there were only 8 teams at that time. That means that there are appoximately 6 full pitching staffs that would not have been good enough to be in the American League back then. Also, quickly name the 10 greatest African American pitchers. How many great ones can you really come up with? For whatever reason that does not seem to be a position that African Americans have excelled at over the years.

If critical position is such a key factor then why doesn't ARod receive a similar bump? He played SS at a Gold Glove level for the first half of his career. I'd argue that SS is an even more critical defensive postion than CF and much, much harder to get an elite slugger at.

 

Because they're my ratings, based on a convoluted mess of not-easily-quantifiable variables.

For those of you discounting Ruth's accomplishments because the league was segregated, don't forget that there were only 8 teams at that time. That means that there are appoximately 6 full pitching staffs that would not have been good enough to be in the American League back then. Also, quickly name the 10 greatest African American pitchers. How many great ones can you really come up with? For whatever reason that does not seem to be a position that African Americans have excelled at over the years.

Gibson, Paige, Vida Blue, Gooden, and CC are 5 really good ones off the top of my head. You also need to count every other non white or American player. Then you can add in guys like Pedro and Marichal.

 

And anytime you are talking about black pitchers I feel it's my duty to mention Dock Ellis.

 

Because they're my ratings, based on a convoluted mess of not-easily-quantifiable variables.

Sounds like a job for Bill James to sit down and quantify.

Gibson, Paige, Vida Blue, Gooden, and CC are 5 really good ones off the top of my head. You also need to count every other non white or American player. Then you can add in guys like Pedro and Marichal.

 

And anytime you are talking about black pitchers I feel it's my duty to mention Dock Ellis.

 

 

Look at how far of a timeline that it took you to come up with 5. And of those only 2 are HOFers. Also, how advanced was baseball in the Latin world back in the 1920's? I can't imagine it was anything like today.

Look at how far of a timeline that it took you to come up with 5. And of those only 2 are HOFers. Also, how advanced was baseball in the Latin world back in the 1920's? I can't imagine it was anything like today.

Doesn't that support the "he played with a much weaker level of competition argument"?

Look at how far of a timeline that it took you to come up with 5. And of those only 2 are HOFers. Also, how advanced was baseball in the Latin world back in the 1920's? I can't imagine it was anything like today.

Just named the first five that came to my head. CC obviously isn't eligible for the HOF but I think he is on a good pace to get there.

 

And while they may not be in the HOF Blue and Gooden both had some of the best seasons a pitcher ever had. Hell, Blue won the Cy Young and MVP in the same season. The '85 Gooden season was right there with it.

Doesn't that support the "he played with a much weaker level of competition argument"?

 

Wouldn't the fact that he didn't play against African Americans and Latins be in a large part offset by the fact that there are currently about 65-70 pitchers pitching today that would have been in the minor leagues in that era?

Because they're my ratings, based on a convoluted mess of not-easily-quantifiable variables.

 

That's the beauty of it, right? :thumb: