There's zero evidence to suggust that he did anything close to steroids or PEDs, so I'd love to hear your reasoning....

 

How about this. He played on Mariner teams with Alex Rodriguez, David Segui, Shane Monahan, Glenallen Hill, Ryan Franklin, and Todd Williams—all admitted steroid users. Former teammates such as Ron Villone, David Bell and Josias Manzanillo were named in the Mitchell report. Throw in suspected users Bret Boone and Jay Buhner. That doesn't make him guilty but does show that steriods were readily available in the Seattle clubhouse.

 

He had power spikes just like other steroid users. He went from 3 straight seasons of homer totals in the 20s all the way to 45 homers in one season. He went from a season in which he hit .258 with 7 doubles and 17 homers in 72 games to a season in which he hit .303 with 26 doubles and 49 homers coming off of a broken wrist--an injury that usually decreases power for awhile.

 

His body broke down quickly in his early 30's. While some might suggest that proves he didn't take steroids that isn't necessarily the case. HGH seems to be the magic bullet that helped lots of sluggers prevent their bodies from breaking down. Meanwhile proven users or suspected users like Caminiti, McGwire, Garciaparra, Juan Gonzalez, Sosa and Richie Sexson seemed to break down quickly in their early to mid 30's.

 

I'm not saying Griffey did use steroids. I honestly hope he didn't, he was my favorite non-Red Sox player in my 20's and 30's. He did play in the steroid era however, and therefore shouldn't get a free pass just because of his likeabliity. Is there any legal evidence that he did take steroids? Not that we know of but there is also no clean tests that we can produce that proves he didn't. If I had to vote, I'd say he didn't. But I just couldn't be sure.

While I don't disagree with your assertion, one would have to assume that Griffey wasn't randomly taking PEDs. Surely he sought someone with a clue when obtaining them. And if he did, then he would likely have taken some that would have surely made his healing process not only quicker, but more efficient. And if he was taking them, and they weren't what he needed to get over his hamstring issues, then he would qualify as the world's largest moron.

 

PED's won't help when you tear your hammy off your femur. I agree that it wouldn't make sense, I just think it's possible. After all of the new testing and names coming out he could've been afraid of the negative publicity and quit. Lots of scenarios, which could all be incorrect.

 

I want to believe he didn't but I'm struggling believing that anyone didn't.

The guy was out way to much with injuries to have done them. If he would have been connected in anyway, we probably would have heard about it by now because he was such a high profile player. This thread is ignorant. Formerkywrestler, do you have some sort of evidence? Or are you just saying you have a hunch?

How about this. He played on Mariner teams with Alex Rodriguez, David Segui, Shane Monahan, Glenallen Hill, Ryan Franklin, and Todd Williams—all admitted steroid users. Former teammates such as Ron Villone, David Bell and Josias Manzanillo were named in the Mitchell report. Throw in suspected users Bret Boone and Jay Buhner. That doesn't make him guilty but does show that steriods were readily available in the Seattle clubhouse.

 

He had power spikes just like other steroid users. He went from 3 straight seasons of homer totals in the 20s all the way to 45 homers in one season. He went from a season in which he hit .258 with 7 doubles and 17 homers in 72 games to a season in which he hit .303 with 26 doubles and 49 homers coming off of a broken wrist--an injury that usually decreases power for awhile.

 

His body broke down quickly in his early 30's. While some might suggest that proves he didn't take steroids that isn't necessarily the case. HGH seems to be the magic bullet that helped lots of sluggers prevent their bodies from breaking down. Meanwhile proven users or suspected users like Caminiti, McGwire, Garciaparra, Juan Gonzalez, Sosa and Richie Sexson seemed to break down quickly in their early to mid 30's.

 

I'm not saying Griffey did use steroids. I honestly hope he didn't, he was my favorite non-Red Sox player in my 20's and 30's. He did play in the steroid era however, and therefore shouldn't get a free pass just because of his likeabliity. Is there any legal evidence that he did take steroids? Not that we know of but there is also no clean tests that we can produce that proves he didn't. If I had to vote, I'd say he didn't. But I just couldn't be sure.

Given the climate and culture that baseball created, this is a very fair post.

The guy was out way to much with injuries to have done them. If he would have been connected in anyway, we probably would have heard about it by now because he was such a high profile player. This thread is ignorant. Formerkywrestler, do you have some sort of evidence? Or are you just saying you have a hunch?

 

Right, because Ken Caminiti was never on the DL. Read AJG's post and name one guy that was never injured.

How about this. He played on Mariner teams with Alex Rodriguez, David Segui, Shane Monahan, Glenallen Hill, Ryan Franklin, and Todd Williams—all admitted steroid users. Former teammates such as Ron Villone, David Bell and Josias Manzanillo were named in the Mitchell report. Throw in suspected users Bret Boone and Jay Buhner. That doesn't make him guilty but does show that steriods were readily available in the Seattle clubhouse.

 

He had power spikes just like other steroid users. He went from 3 straight seasons of homer totals in the 20s all the way to 45 homers in one season. He went from a season in which he hit .258 with 7 doubles and 17 homers in 72 games to a season in which he hit .303 with 26 doubles and 49 homers coming off of a broken wrist--an injury that usually decreases power for awhile.

 

His body broke down quickly in his early 30's. While some might suggest that proves he didn't take steroids that isn't necessarily the case. HGH seems to be the magic bullet that helped lots of sluggers prevent their bodies from breaking down. Meanwhile proven users or suspected users like Caminiti, McGwire, Garciaparra, Juan Gonzalez, Sosa and Richie Sexson seemed to break down quickly in their early to mid 30's.

 

I'm not saying Griffey did use steroids. I honestly hope he didn't, he was my favorite non-Red Sox player in my 20's and 30's. He did play in the steroid era however, and therefore shouldn't get a free pass just because of his likeabliity. Is there any legal evidence that he did take steroids? Not that we know of but there is also no clean tests that we can produce that proves he didn't. If I had to vote, I'd say he didn't. But I just couldn't be sure.

 

Excellent work.

How about this. He played on Mariner teams with Alex Rodriguez, David Segui, Shane Monahan, Glenallen Hill, Ryan Franklin, and Todd Williams—all admitted steroid users. Former teammates such as Ron Villone, David Bell and Josias Manzanillo were named in the Mitchell report. Throw in suspected users Bret Boone and Jay Buhner. That doesn't make him guilty but does show that steriods were readily available in the Seattle clubhouse.

 

He had power spikes just like other steroid users. He went from 3 straight seasons of homer totals in the 20s all the way to 45 homers in one season. He went from a season in which he hit .258 with 7 doubles and 17 homers in 72 games to a season in which he hit .303 with 26 doubles and 49 homers coming off of a broken wrist--an injury that usually decreases power for awhile.

 

His body broke down quickly in his early 30's. While some might suggest that proves he didn't take steroids that isn't necessarily the case. HGH seems to be the magic bullet that helped lots of sluggers prevent their bodies from breaking down. Meanwhile proven users or suspected users like Caminiti, McGwire, Garciaparra, Juan Gonzalez, Sosa and Richie Sexson seemed to break down quickly in their early to mid 30's.

 

I'm not saying Griffey did use steroids. I honestly hope he didn't, he was my favorite non-Red Sox player in my 20's and 30's. He did play in the steroid era however, and therefore shouldn't get a free pass just because of his likeabliity. Is there any legal evidence that he did take steroids? Not that we know of but there is also no clean tests that we can produce that proves he didn't. If I had to vote, I'd say he didn't. But I just couldn't be sure.

 

Some valid points, some not so much IMO.

 

His powe spike from the beginning of his career can easily be attributed to him growing up. He started playing at 19 or 20 years old, surely you'll acknowledge that he was still maturing at that point. His 72 game season was the 1st half, and projected out is 39 HRs and 16 2Bs. Not that huge of a jump from the following season. Also, wouldn't him just making a full recovery allow his power numbers to stay steady?

I have no reason to excuse and don't want him to have taken anything, but I agree he might have. If he didn't and knew everybody else was, why didn't he do something about it? I would have had some media leak or something, if everybody was cheating and I was not.

Some valid points, some not so much IMO.

 

His powe spike from the beginning of his career can easily be attributed to him growing up. He started playing at 19 or 20 years old, surely you'll acknowledge that he was still maturing at that point. His 72 game season was the 1st half, and projected out is 39 HRs and 16 2Bs. Not that huge of a jump from the following season. Also, wouldn't him just making a full recovery allow his power numbers to stay steady?

 

You're projecting his season out over a full 162 games. I neglected to mention in my post that the next season he played 140 games--almost exactly double the number of games. That would mean more like 14 double and 34 homers--and a much bigger jump than the numbers you suggested. As for attributing the homer jump from 1989-92 when he averaged about 22 homers a year and 1993 when he hit 45 it could very well be attributed to growing up. However, in 1992 he hit .308 with 39 doubles and 27 homers in 565 at bats. In 1993 he hit .309 with 38 doubles and 45 homers in 582 at bats. Almost identical in everything but homeruns. Everyone always says that steroids don't help you hit the ball--they help you hit them farther. You have to have great talent to hit major league pitching. We know Griffey had that. He was basically the same hitter each season--except for the homeruns. It could have been maturity....it also could mean something else was helping warning track flies turn into homeruns. There's not proof that steroids caused it--but there's no proof that they didn't. My point is that given the time he played, unless he had himself tested to prove he didn't take PEDs, Griffey seems to get a free pass on the issue just because everyone likes him. I'm included in that group. I never suspected a lot of these guys of using, but as more and more informationn comes out I get more and more skeptical of any numbers from the last 20 years.

You're projecting his season out over a full 162 games. I neglected to mention in my post that the next season he played 140 games--almost exactly double the number of games. That would mean more like 14 double and 34 homers--and a much bigger jump than the numbers you suggested. As for attributing the homer jump from 1989-92 when he averaged about 22 homers a year and 1993 when he hit 45 it could very well be attributed to growing up. However, in 1992 he hit .308 with 39 doubles and 27 homers in 565 at bats. In 1993 he hit .309 with 38 doubles and 45 homers in 582 at bats. Almost identical in everything but homeruns. Everyone always says that steroids don't help you hit the ball--they help you hit them farther. You have to have great talent to hit major league pitching. We know Griffey had that. He was basically the same hitter each season--except for the homeruns. It could have been maturity....it also could mean something else was helping warning track flies turn into homeruns. There's not proof that steroids caused it--but there's no proof that they didn't. My point is that given the time he played, unless he had himself tested to prove he didn't take PEDs, Griffey seems to get a free pass on the issue just because everyone likes him. I'm included in that group. I never suspected a lot of these guys of using, but as more and more informationn comes out I get more and more skeptical of any numbers from the last 20 years.

 

Joey Votto's #s this season are going to be drastically improved from his 2008 or 2009 seasons and he'll be playing roughly the same amount of games (give or take 7-10). Should we include PEDs as a possible reason?

Joey Votto's #s this season are going to be drastically improved from his 2008 or 2009 seasons and he'll be playing roughly the same amount of games (give or take 7-10). Should we include PEDs as a possible reason?

 

There are 53 games remaining in the season. Last year Votto played in 131, barring injury I'd say he gets no more than 2-3 games off the rest of the way so you're looking at more like 20 more games. Besides, you're just being silly now. You have no way to discount my argument so you're just throwing out someone since you have no other point. But I'll play along. There is testing in place now to detect PEDs--there wasn't in 1993 so there is a great chance Votto is clean. Secondly, Griffey's jump came between ages 22-23, Votto's is coming between ages 25-26. Votto turns 27 in September. He is hitting what is considered the prime years of his career. There was no huge jump in his early 20's. Griffey was the age that Jay Bruce is this season and had produced power numbers similar to Bruce at the same ages. It was a huge jump in power numbers at an age when a gradual buildup is the norm. If it was just simply maturity then why didn't his average go up 20 points? Why didn't all of his numbers go up? Only homers, the one statistic that everyone can agree homers help you with went up....Again not saying he's guilty.

 

Since you don't like my points that suggest that he could have taken PEDs let me hear your arguments that prove that he didn't. You like to disagree but you don't like it when you have to prove your points. So again, present the case that shows Ken Griffey Jr is the one slugger of the steroid era that should be beyond reproach.

This is ridiculous... Junior was about as pure of an athlete as they come. I can't believe were discussing this.

There are 53 games remaining in the season. Last year Votto played in 131, barring injury I'd say he gets no more than 2-3 games off the rest of the way so you're looking at more like 20 more games. Besides, you're just being silly now. You have no way to discount my argument so you're just throwing out someone since you have no other point. But I'll play along. There is testing in place now to detect PEDs--there wasn't in 1993 so there is a great chance Votto is clean. Secondly, Griffey's jump came between ages 22-23, Votto's is coming between ages 25-26. Votto turns 27 in September. He is hitting what is considered the prime years of his career. There was no huge jump in his early 20's. Griffey was the age that Jay Bruce is this season and had produced power numbers similar to Bruce at the same ages. It was a huge jump in power numbers at an age when a gradual buildup is the norm. If it was just simply maturity then why didn't his average go up 20 points? Why didn't all of his numbers go up? Only homers, the one statistic that everyone can agree homers help you with went up....Again not saying he's guilty.

 

Since you don't like my points that suggest that he could have taken PEDs let me hear your arguments that prove that he didn't. You like to disagree but you don't like it when you have to prove your points. So again, present the case that shows Ken Griffey Jr is the one slugger of the steroid era that should be beyond reproach.

 

I didn't say I don't like your points, just that I don't agree with them. That is still allowed isn't it?

 

Injury history strongly suggests that Griffey did not use. He took an extreme amount of time to recover from injuries, which would have been much shorter had he been juicing. His injuries with Cincinnati were about as legit as they come. He over extended while diving for a ball and hurt himself in the OF, happens all the time. He got caught in a rundown between 3rd and home and slipped as he was switching directions, and screwed up his knee. Once again, that happens all the time. He hurt his hamstring, which also happens a ton in baseball.

 

Body type suggests he didn't use either. During the time that Griffey was "supposedly using" he was tiny. If he was using PEDs there would have been some sort of physical alteration in appearance, and it just didn't happen. He also maintained his speed through those seasons, which also would go if he was "bulking up" from steroids.

 

Griffey was one of the few who's HRs were never generated from his strength or power, it was always in bat speed. The quicker you move the bat through the zone, the farther it's going to go. PEDs were able to increase strength, but not bat speed from my knowledge.

 

Lastly, Griffey's swing was built to hit HRs. It wasn't a hit for average swing, although he did that fairly well throughout his career, it was the sweet loop swing that caused a ball to naturally take off. Most hitters, especially lefties who have that type of swing, tend to hit a bunch of HRs.

The tragedy here is we are even having the discussion. Guilt by association. Any player that played during the steroids era will have to face this type of speculation. That is why I often wondered why players that weren't juicing didn't speak out against it. Maybe everyone was juicing so they all kept quiet. But as to Griffey, I read an article once that said the biggest tip off to someone using steroids is weight gain. If a player suddenly one off season gains 20 pounds, that was a huge indicator of steroid use. Did Griffey ever have an off season weight gain like that? I don't know but it would be something to look up if you were really interested in this. I wouldn't say he never took steroids because it is possible I guess during one of his injuries over the year steroids were actually prescribed for healing. But I don't think he ever took them for performance enhancement only.

 

By the way, this is one of the most lopsided polls I have seen on here.

This is ridiculous... Junior was about as pure of an athlete as they come. I can't believe were discussing this.

A-Rod had that title for a while and.....