I didn't say I don't like your points, just that I don't agree with them. That is still allowed isn't it?

 

Injury history strongly suggests that Griffey did not use. He took an extreme amount of time to recover from injuries, which would have been much shorter had he been juicing. His injuries with Cincinnati were about as legit as they come. He over extended while diving for a ball and hurt himself in the OF, happens all the time. He got caught in a rundown between 3rd and home and slipped as he was switching directions, and screwed up his knee. Once again, that happens all the time. He hurt his hamstring, which also happens a ton in baseball.

 

Body type suggests he didn't use either. During the time that Griffey was "supposedly using" he was tiny. If he was using PEDs there would have been some sort of physical alteration in appearance, and it just didn't happen. He also maintained his speed through those seasons, which also would go if he was "bulking up" from steroids.

 

Griffey was one of the few who's HRs were never generated from his strength or power, it was always in bat speed. The quicker you move the bat through the zone, the farther it's going to go. PEDs were able to increase strength, but not bat speed from my knowledge.

 

Lastly, Griffey's swing was built to hit HRs. It wasn't a hit for average swing, although he did that fairly well throughout his career, it was the sweet loop swing that caused a ball to naturally take off. Most hitters, especially lefties who have that type of swing, tend to hit a bunch of HRs.

 

His injury history could actually be something that supports steroid use. His injuries were for the most part tendon/ligament related. One problem with steroid use is that tendons and ligaments don't become stronger along with the muscles and are prone to tearing.

 

As for the body type, not all steroid users were ripped--look at Rafael Palmiero.

 

Bat speeed not affected by steroids, you're kidding--right? If you keep the same technical swing and you are stronger you are going to move the bat quicker. His bat speed is precisely what would have been effected.

 

Young Bonds ----------------- Juiced Bonds

 

 

Young McGwire ------------------- Juiced McGwire

 

 

Young Sosa -------------------------------- Juiced Sosa

 

 

Young Griffey ----------------------------------------- Juiced Griffey??

 

Let's add a picture of rookie Griffey, before he hit 45 homeruns--just for comparison.

 

Again, I want to think that Junior was clean. I actually voted that he didn't take PEDs in this poll. However, I think his numbers have to be looked at with the same scrutiny of the rest of the league during this era.

No way. If he was on the juice he would have been one of the first players brought up and 100% guarantee that someone would have outted him already.

Let's add a picture of rookie Griffey, before he hit 45 homeruns--just for comparison. [ATTACH]32245[/ATTACH]

 

Again, I want to think that Junior was clean. I actually voted that he didn't take PEDs in this poll. However, I think his numbers have to be looked at with the same scrutiny of the rest of the league during this era.

 

That picture doesn't look much different than the other two as far as body type goes...

No way. If he was on the juice he would have been one of the first players brought up and 100% guarantee that someone would have outted him already.

 

Agreed.

That picture doesn't look much different than the other two as far as body type goes...

 

Look at the difference in the size of the forearms, butt and legs. Where does your power as a hitter come from? I know that he was only 19 in the first one but since he had a big spike in power production around age 23 it should be noted that he was about 20-25 pounds heavier around that time than when he came into the league.

Let's add a picture of rookie Griffey, before he hit 45 homeruns--just for comparison. [ATTACH]32245[/ATTACH]

 

Again, I want to think that Junior was clean. I actually voted that he didn't take PEDs in this poll. However, I think his numbers have to be looked at with the same scrutiny of the rest of the league during this era.

 

I still don't see much of a difference..

Look at the difference in the size of the forearms, butt and legs. Where does your power as a hitter come from? I know that he was only 19 in the first one but since he had a big spike in power production around age 23 it should be noted that he was about 20-25 pounds heavier around that time than when he came into the league.

 

Which is a very natural occurance for almost everyone from 19-23....How many people do you know that were the same size at 23 as they were at 19?

 

Heck, I'm 23 now and am 15 lbs heavier than I was when I was 19. I was 150 when I was a freshman in college, and now I'm 165, and I don't lift or work out much. When I was lifting last year I was up to 170-175, and I wasn't taking any kind of PEDs...

There are some things about that Mariner team during that time that seem fishy to me. Edgar Martinez never had a 20 homer season in his 20's. At age 32 he has his first and hits at least 23 homers for 7 straight seasons. Jay Buhner had 3 straight 40 homer seasons after never topping 30--at age 30. Mike Blowers had a 23 homer season. A-Rod was part of the team during this stretch. A lot of these players were implicated or suspected of using PEDs. That isn't enough to show that Griffey was using but, it goes back to the guilt by association thing.

This is beginning to feel like a witch hunt...

Which is a very natural occurance for almost everyone from 19-23....How many people do you know that were the same size at 23 as they were at 19?

 

Heck, I'm 23 now and am 15 lbs heavier than I was when I was 19. I was 150 when I was a freshman in college, and now I'm 165, and I don't lift or work out much. When I was lifting last year I was up to 170-175, and I wasn't taking any kind of PEDs...

 

Most people that gain 15-25 pounds through there don't gain 15-25 pounds of lean muscle. Maybe it was natural, maybe not. Griffey wasn't known for his fitness regiment. Who's to say he wasn't using them to get a little more effect from the workout that he did do?

Most people that gain 15-25 pounds through there don't gain 15-25 pounds of lean muscle. Maybe it was natural, maybe not. Griffey wasn't known for his fitness regiment. Who's to say he wasn't using them to get a little more effect from the workout that he did do?

 

Later on in his career he wasn't know for his workout regiment, but that's not to say when he first started he wasn't a workout guy. Also, if I (a lean build, but not real athletic guy) can put on 15-20 lbs of muscle from simply working out for a couple months, I'm sure someone as athletic as Griffey could have easily done twice that from simple workouts.

There are some things about that Mariner team during that time that seem fishy to me. Edgar Martinez never had a 20 homer season in his 20's. At age 32 he has his first and hits at least 23 homers for 7 straight seasons. Jay Buhner had 3 straight 40 homer seasons after never topping 30--at age 30. Mike Blowers had a 23 homer season. A-Rod was part of the team during this stretch. A lot of these players were implicated or suspected of using PEDs. That isn't enough to show that Griffey was using but, it goes back to the guilt by association thing.

 

Like was asked earlier, why would Griffey be the sole guy that has never been name dropped if he did it?

 

Conseco and other admitted users who have outted guys have never said a word about Jr....Why do you think that is, if he did them? You really expect people to believe that Griffey was doing them, and no one else ever saw it or knew? Come on now, if Griffey used, Conseco would have included him with the likes of Palmerio, McGwire, Sosa, etc...

This is beginning to feel like a witch hunt..

 

Not a witch hunt. Again, I really don't think he did use PEDs. I guess it is just my frustration with the entire steroid era. If one can raise valid points that suggest that Griffey could have used PEDs then it makes pretty much all the numbers from 1990-2005 to have to be viewed with a skeptical eye. Of all the great players of that era, I think Griffey and Jeter are the ones most likely to have done it cleanly but if either or both of their names were among the ones that have yet to be released I wouldn't bat an eye at this point.

By no means does Griffey looked ripped in that picture, if anything he looks fat. But I guess since everyone else was doing it he did too...

The age argument is weak too, how many players hit thier prime before 28 or so? Not many. So therefore wouldn't there be more production from a guy in his thirties?