That is why I always argue with people about Palmer. He really did only have one bad year by his standards and that was last season. Yet he was still good enough when it mattered most at the end of the games to get his team to the playoffs. 2007 he put up great numbers, yeah they weren't as great as 2006 and 2007. However they were still great, and lets not forget Henry was suspended for 8 games and Rudi Johnson ran for only 600 yards that year.

 

I'm with you and I never was until I looked at the numbers after your post. He's had a couple bad breaks. Besides injuries his biggest problem is the Bengals now want to win like Pittsburgh did when Ben won his first title. Every other team in the NFL is trying to throw it to win and the Benglas could throw it as good as anyone 3-5 years ago. They were tired of getting beat by Pitt so they changed everything. We'll see if it works. I like what they can do. Manning has only won one so it isn't that easy.

I just think for his career he's been average. He had two great years, and other than that he's been a fringe top 10 QB at best IMO. Agree to disagree? None of us are going to change our minds obviously.

I am a funny guy... :lol::thumb:

 

With all jokes aside, Steelers D is better in every position with the exception of CB... If Troy was healthy last year, I feel we win another division crown.

 

Better D line.

Way better LB's

Way better Safteys

 

Way better LB's?????? hahahahahaha

Way better LB's?????? hahahahahaha

 

Woodley and Harrison are both pro bowlers and the latter was D player of the year. I would put Timmons in the same class as as Rivers and that other Bengal LB. Even though Farrior has lost a step, at worst I would put him in the same class as D. Jones. I would even put top back up, Larry Foote in the same class as jones.

 

Pittsburgh - 6 pro bowls, 3 all pros, and 1 defensive player of the year.

 

Cincy - None...

 

Way better!!!!! :thumb:

I just think for his career he's been average. He had two great years, and other than that he's been a fringe top 10 QB at best IMO. Agree to disagree? None of us are going to change our minds obviously.

 

Hey that's cool, but one more thing....Matt Ryan? What has he done? I think Palmer is probably right around 10th or so which isn't great, but not bad either. I'd for sure rather have him than some young guys you mentioned.

I just think for his career he's been average. He had two great years, and other than that he's been a fringe top 10 QB at best IMO. Agree to disagree? None of us are going to change our minds obviously.

 

Hey that's cool, but one more thing....Matt Ryan? What has he done? I think Palmer is probably right around 10th or so which isn't great, but not bad either. I'd for sure rather have him than some young guys you mentioned.

 

The main reason I argue with people about this, is because some people act like he is not that good. When the numbers show he has had only one bad year, and he was still good enough to help his team win. People act like he has been bad since his knee injury, and talk like the Bengals need a new QB now. I just hate that talk, because if you look at the numbers and just everything a whole. Then its not that hard to see that Palmer is still a good QB, and no need for a new QB. You would think this city would know better than most how hard it is to find a QB you can win with.

The main reason I argue with people about this, is because some people act like he is not that good. When the numbers show he has had only one bad year, and he was still good enough to help his team win. People act like he has been bad since his knee injury, and talk like the Bengals need a new QB now. I just hate that talk, because if you look at the numbers and just everything a whole. Then its not that hard to see that Palmer is still a good QB, and no need for a new QB. You would think this city would know better than most how hard it is to find a QB you can win with.

 

Stats are just numbers to me. Even when Carson put up great ones I still felt there were 6-10 (maybe more) guys I would rather have had on my team.

Stats are just numbers to me. Even when Carson put up great ones I still felt there were 6-10 (maybe more) guys I would rather have had on my team.

 

I think it just comes down to you just don't like him, so you don't want to give any credit to him. If you can admit that, then I can understand your argument more becasue I have been that way about players before too.

 

By the way In 2005 and 2006. What 6 or 10 QB's would you have taken over him.

So I work with a guy who is an obvious Bengals homer and actually said that Palmer was the 2nd best QB in the league only behind Peyton Manning and actually tried to give stats to back it up, I just laughed.

I think it just comes down to you just don't like him, so you don't want to give any credit to him. If you can admit that, then I can understand your argument more becasue I have been that way about players before too.

 

By the way In 2005 and 2006. What 6 or 10 QB's would you have taken over him.

 

Carson Palmer was extremely nice the only time I've ever talked to him so I have nothing against him outside of the fact he stole a Heisman trophy from a much more deserving Willis McGahee. I don't have anything against him I just think Bengals fans really overrate him.

 

As for the 6-10 QBs in 05-06, I personally would have taken Manning, Brady, McNabb, Drew Brees, Big Ben, Mike Vick, and Steve McNair over him. Warner was in his bad years but I probably still would have wanted him instead too. That's just how I feel about it though. Palmer has never been a guy that has impressed me, no matter what numbers he's put up. I don't know what's wrong with that, I've given the Bengals units credit as I feel they deserve. If I don't think Palmer is good I don't see why it has to be such a big deal or stop the press kind of moment.

Carson Palmer was extremely nice the only time I've ever talked to him so I have nothing against him outside of the fact he stole a Heisman trophy from a much more deserving Willis McGahee. I don't have anything against him I just think Bengals fans really overrate him.

 

As for the 6-10 QBs in 05-06, I personally would have taken Manning, Brady, McNabb, Drew Brees, Big Ben, Mike Vick, and Steve McNair over him. Warner was in his bad years but I probably still would have wanted him instead too. That's just how I feel about it though. Palmer has never been a guy that has impressed me, no matter what numbers he's put up. I don't know what's wrong with that, I've given the Bengals units credit as I feel they deserve. If I don't think Palmer is good I don't see why it has to be such a big deal or stop the press kind of moment.

 

It's not stop the presses. It is wrong however. Vick is a joke. Brees has had two great years. Do people forget that he was run out of SD? In 05 and 06 you are the only person in the world that would have rather had Brees, Vick, or McNair.

It's not stop the presses. It is wrong however. Vick is a joke. Brees has had two great years. Do people forget that he was run out of SD? In 05 and 06 you are the only person in the world that would have rather had Brees, Vick, or McNair.

 

Brees run out of San Diego? Must have missed that. 2004 Comeback Player of the Year and made the Pro Bowl. 2005 made the Pro Bowl but could not play because of his shoulder injury. Now the Chargers did let him walk, but that is for two reasons. One no one knew if he could come back from his shoulder injury and two they had Philip Rivers. Run out of town? Run out of town? Like he was a scrub or something :lol:.

 

As for Vick and McNair both were proven winners in the regular season and the playoffs by 2005, something Carson has yet to prove.

Brees run out of San Diego? Must have missed that. 2004 Comeback Player of the Year and made the Pro Bowl. 2005 made the Pro Bowl but could not play because of his shoulder injury. Now the Chargers did let him walk, but that is for two reasons. One no one knew if he could come back from his shoulder injury and two they had Philip Rivers. Run out of town? Run out of town? Like he was a scrub or something :lol:.

 

As for Vick and McNair both were proven winners in the regular season and the playoffs by 2005, something Carson has yet to prove.

 

Any time a team uses a pick as high as SD did to get Rivers it seems to me that they are running their QB out of town. He was let go I guess instead of run out of town. Brees was nowhere near as good as Palmer in 05. He never threw more than 30 TD's until the last two years. Generally speaking teams don't let elite QB's walk at the age Brees left SD.

 

Vick isn't a good NFL QB IMO. Using playoff record as your main point for a guy not being elite is a tad off IMO b/c there are so many other factors. A guy does make the biggest name for himself in the post season though.

Any time a team uses a pick as high as SD did to get Rivers it seems to me that they are running their QB out of town. He was let go I guess instead of run out of town. Brees was nowhere near as good as Palmer in 05. He never threw more than 30 TD's until the last two years. Generally speaking teams don't let elite QB's walk at the age Brees left SD.

 

Vick isn't a good NFL QB IMO. Using playoff record as your main point for a guy not being elite is a tad off IMO b/c there are so many other factors. A guy does make the biggest name for himself in the post season though.

 

Umm, Brees struggled as a young player. The Chargers traded/drafted Rivers. Brees got really good. SD had a choice to make 2 years later and chose the younger, higher paid guy who didn't have a torn rotator cuff. So did he get run out of town or did SD just jump the gun in drafting another QB? Rivers is a heck of a QB but I have to think SD would have won a Super Bowl by now with Brees at QB.

 

Vick was one guy that stats couldn't measure what he did. You can't tell me that Falcons team he took to the NFC Title game was one of the 4 most talented teams in the league. TJ Duckett? Warrick Dunn? Vick was a winner and I'll take that any day over a QB who is going to put up numbers.

Umm, Brees struggled as a young player. The Chargers traded/drafted Rivers. Brees got really good. SD had a choice to make 2 years later and chose the younger, higher paid guy who didn't have a torn rotator cuff. So did he get run out of town or did SD just jump the gun in drafting another QB? Rivers is a heck of a QB but I have to think SD would have won a Super Bowl by now with Brees at QB.

 

Vick was one guy that stats couldn't measure what he did. You can't tell me that Falcons team he took to the NFC Title game was one of the 4 most talented teams in the league. TJ Duckett? Warrick Dunn? Vick was a winner and I'll take that any day over a QB who is going to put up numbers.

 

What has Vick won?