I think the problem a lot of people have when you read that "Palmer was easily a top 5 QB", that gives the impression has was right up there with Manning, Brady, or anyone else on top of football. Manning had been doing it over an extended period and Brady had the hardware. To me Palmer was on the doorstep of making a breakthrough to the upper echelon of guys but needed more than two seasons to solidify his place. I think a good comparison is Aaron Rodgers. He has been good the past two seasons, but has yet to win anything or have a sustained run of success to put him in the elite category. Right on the doorstep as Palmer was.

 

I do feel Palmer has a chance to move up the charts quickly this season. Better than average, but below one of the games best.

Just let this sink in guys, Rex Grossman has more playoff wins than Palmer.....Elite :lol:.

Just let this sink in guys, Rex Grossman has more playoff wins than Palmer.....Elite :lol:.

 

Theres nothing to sink in. Bears made it to the Super Bowl because their defense held everyone else under ten points because there was no way Grossman and the offense were going to score too much more than that. At least there once a point in time in which Palmer led one of the most prolific passing attacks in football, theres no way you can say that about Grossman. Sometimes wins don't tell the entire story, especially with football, which is the ultimate team sport.

Theres nothing to sink in. Bears made it to the Super Bowl because their defense held everyone else under ten points because there was no way Grossman and the offense were going to score too much more than that. At least there once a point in time in which Palmer led one of the most prolific passing attacks in football, theres no way you can say that about Grossman. Sometimes wins don't tell the entire story, especially with football, which is the ultimate team sport.

 

What about last season when the Bengals had the 6th highest rated defense in the NFL?

CatsCatsCats aren't you someone who says that Lebron hasn't been able to get his team over the top in the NBA because of what has been around him? So what is so different here? 2005 Bengals didn't have a defense, but might have won a playoff game or two if not for the injury. That is something we will never know. 2006 his defense was still not good and special teams decided to choke. 2007 defense still sucked, and offense talent got worst. 2008 was hurt. Then last year not much around him offensively, but defense was good, and special teams still sucked. So you have been someone who says a guy needs help around him like in Lebrons case. So what is so different here? Shoot in football you need help from every spot even more. Palmer is not going to kick field goals, or play defense. So you seem to base your judgements on QB's based on team success. However you don't do the same for a guy like Lebron? Where he could do even more to help his team win that a QB can. If we are going to base things on team success. Then I guess you will think Kobe and Wade are both better players than Lebron.

What about last season when the Bengals had the 6th highest rated defense in the NFL?

 

When your best wide out and only formidable weapon on the outside is being doubled 90% of the time and your team is running the ball 75% of the time theres not much you can say. My argument is in no way can you can compare Rex Grossman and Carson Palmer and insinuate Grossman is as good as a qb because he has playoff wins. I'm going to start calling you guys stretch armstrong if you keep stretching for something like that.

Ron Jaworski, who played QB and analyzes QB's more than anyone, used to state there were 3 elite QB's in the league - Manning, Brady, and Palmer. Since the injury, JAWS says he's not there anymore. Many of the talking heads on ESPN and NFL Network called Palmer a Troy Aikman clone. The point is that people other than Bengal fans put Palmer in that category. Whether you agree or disagree it really doesn't matter. I think everyone agrees there are no excuses this year.

CatsCatsCats aren't you someone who says that Lebron hasn't been able to get his team over the top in the NBA because of what has been around him? So what is so different here? 2005 Bengals didn't have a defense, but might have won a playoff game or two if not for the injury. That is something we will never know. 2006 his defense was still not good and special teams decided to choke. 2007 defense still sucked, and offense talent got worst. 2008 was hurt. Then last year not much around him offensively, but defense was good, and special teams still sucked. So you have been someone who says a guy needs help around him like in Lebrons case. So what is so different here? Shoot in football you need help from every spot even more. Palmer is not going to kick field goals, or play defense. So you seem to base your judgements on QB's based on team success. However you don't do the same for a guy like Lebron? Where he could do even more to help his team win that a QB can. If we are going to base things on team success. Then I guess you will think Kobe and Wade are both better players than Lebron.

 

You are really reaching here.

1. Basketball and football are two different sports.

2. I have been extremely biased of LeBron over the years. You're extremely biased for the Bengals.

3. Let's not compare LeBron and Carson Palmer. Carson Palmer is maybe the Brandon Roy of the NFL QBs at best.

4. It's a combination of things that determine how good a QB is IMO. One of the key ingredients is success. It's why guys like Montana are looked at more favorably than guys like Marino.

Ron Jaworski, who played QB and analyzes QB's more than anyone, used to state there were 3 elite QB's in the league - Manning, Brady, and Palmer. Since the injury, JAWS says he's not there anymore. Many of the talking heads on ESPN and NFL Network called Palmer a Troy Aikman clone. The point is that people other than Bengal fans put Palmer in that category. Whether you agree or disagree it really doesn't matter. I think everyone agrees there are no excuses this year.

 

Exactly. People have forgotten how well thought of Palmer was before the injury. They talked him up as much as any QB in the league not named Manning or Brady, and that being in the Patriots hey day.

Exactly. People have forgotten how well thought of Palmer was before the injury. They talked him up as much as any QB in the league not named Manning or Brady, and that being in the Patriots hey day.

 

Drew Bledsoe was also extremely well thought of early in his career. How did that turn out? Actually about like Carson Palmer.

Drew Bledsoe was also extremely well thought of early in his career. How did that turn out? Actually about like Carson Palmer.

 

What's your point?

 

No one is claiming that Palmer is elite now. It was and is a simple fact that before the injuries he was thought of by everyone that knew football and around the game as one of the elite QBs. It hasn't worked out, but that doesn't change the fact that at one point he was amongst the elite.

What's your point?

 

No one is claiming that Palmer is elite now. It was and is a simple fact that before the injuries he was thought of by everyone that knew football and around the game as one of the elite QBs. It hasn't worked out, but that doesn't change the fact that at one point he was amongst the elite.

 

My point is that they were wrong. He had a good run but it didn't sustain itself. Blame it on injuries or lack of talent if you want, but he is average now. There really aren't many long term effects from his injury so I think that excuse is about as weak as it gets. He was overrated then and you overrate him now.

 

You know quick ESPN is to jump all over players, Palmer is just another example IMO.

My point is that they were wrong. He had a good run but it didn't sustain itself. Blame it on injuries or lack of talent if you want, but he is average now. There really aren't many long term effects from his injury so I think that excuse is about as weak as it gets. He was overrated then and you overrate him now.

 

You know quick ESPN is to jump all over players, Palmer is just another example IMO.

 

I overrate him now? Where do you come up with this stuff? :lol: I rated him the 13th best QB in the NFL, you rated him at 14th. So somehow I'm overrating him, but your ranking of him 1 entire spot lower is suffice? Give me a break. :lol:

I overrate him now? Where do you come up with this stuff? :lol: I rated him the 13th best QB in the NFL, you rated him at 14th. So somehow I'm overrating him, but your ranking of him 1 entire spot lower is suffice? Give me a break. :lol:

 

You say he can break back in to the upper echelon in the NFL. That would be really, really, overrating him. It seems like you want to say he's to 5-10 you just can't do it. I put him at 14 because that's average which is what he is. He's still better than the Ryan Fitzpatricks of the world.

You say he can break back in to the upper echelon in the NFL. That would be really, really, overrating him. It seems like you want to say he's to 5-10 you just can't do it. I put him at 14 because that's average which is what he is. He's still better than the Ryan Fitzpatricks of the world.

 

Where did I say that? And where in the world do you get that I want to say he's top 5 or 10? Please show me one time I've said that. I've said numerous times that before the injuries he was thought of as a top 5 QB. That's a fact. You can dispute it all you want, but it's 100% the truth.

 

I said he's got no more excuses. If you've paid any attention at all to Bengals threads in the past, I'm about as critical of Palmer as they come. He's got more talent around him now than ever before. If he wants to prove he's one of the better QBs in the league, he's got his chance with this year's team.