You said:

 

 

So I was just going on the thought that if you play on the highest level in D1 you are "Good enough", but what if you don't play on the highest level in college but you make it to highest level in pro sports? And, it is possible.

 

I am looking at the High School level because this is a high school site... a player good enough coming out of high school will play division 1... If he didnt play division 1 he is not good enough or not confident enough in his abilities to play division 1. And in college there are other things besides football that are required; academics, not being afraid of competition, having to take care of someone, etc.

 

If a player doesn't make it to the NFL then he was not good enough as a college player.

 

Does not matter according to your statements. So, according to you, he didn't play DI, so he is not in the "Good Enough" category. I'm just trying to figure out what you're trying to convey in your post, so re-define "Good Enough" in your opinion.

 

The origonal post question:

"When is getting a college scholarship to play football good enough? When is being in the top tier of a sport good enough? When is just being "Good" good enough?"

 

My answer is good enough is accepting a division 1 scholarship. If a player doesn't get a scholarship from a divsion 1 team, he is not good enough to get a scholarship or not confident enough in his abilities and rather took the route of playing weaker competition. If he was good enough he would get an offer from a d1 school.

In other words, a lot of 'non-D-1' kids would meet my definition of 'good enough' anyday!

 

So what is your definition of good enough?

Kids need encouragement, but I'm worried that too often -- for the good-intentioned reason of 'building self-esteem' -- we've made kids believe the falsehood of "you can be anything you want to be if you just put your mind to it." (I'll never be a sub-3-minute miler, no matter HOW hard I 'put my mind to it!').

 

A very good friend of mine in coaching gets massacred by people in his community because of kids he's coached who have been built up at home or elsewhere to be the next 'full-ride' kid. He knows based on experience (HS coaching AND D-1 playing) that the kid is 'missing something' the colleges require (e.g., height, frame-size, speed, hips, etc.). When the kid invariably doesn't get that full-ride, there's criticism that the coach didn't do enough for him (and this guy does as much or more than any HS coach I know to help his players get recruited).

 

** In Kentucky, an average range of only 16-22 HS football players a year sign an LOI for a full-ride to a BCS or I-AA school (stats of last 4 years). Let's average that to 19.

** If the 220-or-so football playing HSs in the state average 12-15 seniors on their team, that means there are about 2645-3300 seniors playing football in a given season. Let's average that to 2970.

** That means in a typical year, the chances of a Sr. football player in Ky. getting a 'full-ride' in football is about 19:2970...or 0.6%.

 

Bottom line: to get a full-ride, you have to be very, VERY good. To get one playing in Kentucky, in a way you have to be even better -- because our poor history of producing D-1 caliber talent makes D-1 coaches look down their nose at our kids.

 

By the way, having that D-1 caliber kid is great to have (blessed with a couple this year myself). But to have a successful HIGH SCHOOL football team year-in/year-out, I'd be just fine every year with a team full of hard-nosed/tough kids who are committed enough to train every week of the off-season to reach their best athletically. The key is that every kid you let play must meet a minimum standard of 'athleticism' but must be DISCIPLINED enough to do their jobs right every play, regardless of any other factor.

 

In other words, a lot of 'non-D-1' kids would meet my definition of 'good enough' anyday!

 

 

Another high quality and well written post by CoachJ. You must be a Centre graduate.

NAIA Players in the NFL: http://naia.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/091005aaa.html

 

That's quite a list ! Looks like D1 schools overlook tons of talented players on a regular basis.

 

Good enough is good enough when you have given 100% and know that you could do no better than you did , no matter where you end up.

Kids need encouragement, but I'm worried that too often -- for the good-intentioned reason of 'building self-esteem' -- we've made kids believe the falsehood of "you can be anything you want to be if you just put your mind to it." (I'll never be a sub-3-minute miler, no matter HOW hard I 'put my mind to it!').

 

A very good friend of mine in coaching gets massacred by people in his community because of kids he's coached who have been built up at home or elsewhere to be the next 'full-ride' kid. He knows based on experience (HS coaching AND D-1 playing) that the kid is 'missing something' the colleges require (e.g., height, frame-size, speed, hips, etc.). When the kid invariably doesn't get that full-ride, there's criticism that the coach didn't do enough for him (and this guy does as much or more than any HS coach I know to help his players get recruited).

 

** In Kentucky, an average range of only 16-22 HS football players a year sign an LOI for a full-ride to a BCS or I-AA school (stats of last 4 years). Let's average that to 19.

** If the 220-or-so football playing HSs in the state average 12-15 seniors on their team, that means there are about 2645-3300 seniors playing football in a given season. Let's average that to 2970.

** That means in a typical year, the chances of a Sr. football player in Ky. getting a 'full-ride' in football is about 19:2970...or 0.6%.

 

Bottom line: to get a full-ride, you have to be very, VERY good. To get one playing in Kentucky, in a way you have to be even better -- because our poor history of producing D-1 caliber talent makes D-1 coaches look down their nose at our kids.

 

By the way, having that D-1 caliber kid is great to have (blessed with a couple this year myself). But to have a successful HIGH SCHOOL football team year-in/year-out, I'd be just fine every year with a team full of hard-nosed/tough kids who are committed enough to train every week of the off-season to reach their best athletically. The key is that every kid you let play must meet a minimum standard of 'athleticism' but must be DISCIPLINED enough to do their jobs right every play, regardless of any other factor.

 

In other words, a lot of 'non-D-1' kids would meet my definition of 'good enough' anyday!

 

Another high quality and well written post by CoachJ. You must be a Centre graduate.

 

This post certainly hit the nail on the head.:thumb:

I promise you that folks who criticize young men for "ONLY" getting a scholarship to a mid-major D1, or a D2 or an NAIA school NEVER received any type of scholarship themselves.

 

Anytime an instituition is willing to pay for a young man to attend college for free, it is a VERY IMPRESSIVE honor and accomplishment. Then, if the player can stay with it for the next 4 or 5 years and earn a degree, it is THAT MUCH MORE IMPRESSIVE.

Of course they are. Does that still mean that the all of the other college football players that go to the NFL are not good?

 

If not, does that mean, by definition, that they're bad?

 

 

No, of course they are good, they made it to the NFL. However, the post above mine was disputing the claim that D1 was the best of the best... and % wise it is.

Every year I read how certain players are going to get college attention. I read how many are going to get their college education payed for due to their athletic ability. I read how this player is "Good" and this player is "Better", how this player is going to get a scholarship, and how this player is going to get "D1" Scholarships. I read how this player is "Good" but he is only good enough to get NAIA attention. And I read how this player is getting "D1" attention but decided to go to a D2 school, so he must not be a real "D1" talent.

 

I read how these players are great and going to college to play football. Just getting the opportunity is a great accomplishment, no matter what level. But their is always criticism for them not getting D1 scholarships, or at least not accepting a D1 scholarship. Used to, people would only criticize for not getting any attention, then they started criticizing for not getting D1 attention, now they criticize for getting "Large D1" attention. Where does it end? Sometimes I think we are the players' worst enemies.

 

When is getting a college scholarship to play football good enough? When is being in the top tier of a sport good enough? When is just being "Good" good enough?

 

Great points Ram. I think the problem stems from the fact that everyone would like to go D1. Many don't realize just how few spots are out there each year at the Division 1 level, and how selective the process is. It takes a nearly perfect storm to create a Division 1 athlete. Most of the time all or most of the following qualities are needed: Size, Speed, Athleticism, good coaching, grades, and to some extent recognition to go along with talent.

 

Also, I think alot of the problem with parents is that they cannot be unbiased in evaluating their children, it's just not human nature. Getting to play football at the collegiate level, while getting school paid for is a dream come true for players that want to continue to play. For almost all football players, the NFL is not going to be a realistic option, so IMO I think all that should matter is that the kid gets a good education and has fun. There is no shame in going to play at any level. :thumb:

I promise you that folks who criticize young men for "ONLY" getting a scholarship to a mid-major D1, or a D2 or an NAIA school NEVER received any type of scholarship themselves.

 

Anytime an instituition is willing to pay for a young man to attend college for free, it is a VERY IMPRESSIVE honor and accomplishment. Then, if the player can stay with it for the next 4 or 5 years and earn a degree, it is THAT MUCH MORE IMPRESSIVE.

 

Anything less than D1 is not good enough for D1.

 

Secondly, if you are talking about me, I did not criticize anyone for not making it division 1, I said that they are not "good enough" for division 1 if they dont get offered and accept a d1 scholarship.

 

Third, you somewhat lose your credibility because your promise was pretty much wrong. I chose not to play football in college, however I was offered scholarship money to play football. I elected not to play and I told my high school coach if I wasn't going to get a D1 scholarship then my heart wasn't in it.

I think some credit has to be given to kids who chose to keep playing at a higher level at non athletic shcolarship schools. They play some pretty good football and their love for the game makes academic success a little tougher as well.

:thumb: Good for both of them! Fine athletes, better people. The fact that they bought into the team concept, paid in positive results throughout their high school careers. Even if they did not play a down of football moving forward the boys had fun and past the tourch to future generations. The fact that they made decisions as student/athletes it says a lot about the boys and their families. Georgetown, Dayton, Centre, TMC are all great schools and even better close enough to follow the boys as they go through the college ranks. Success is in their futures and we are very proud and are certain they will represent the community well.

 

:thumb:

:thumb: Good for both of them! Fine athletes, better people. The fact that they bought into the team concept, paid in positive results throughout their high school careers. Even if they did not play a down of football moving forward the boys had fun and past the tourch to future generations. The fact that they made decisions as student/athletes it says a lot about the boys and their families. Georgetown, Dayton, Centre, TMC are all great schools and even better close enough to follow the boys as they go through the college ranks. Success is in their futures and we are very proud and are certain they will represent the community well.

 

And don't forget MSJ......

And don't forget MSJ......

 

I thought of that late last night; the little engine that could!

Kids need encouragement, but I'm worried that too often -- for the good-intentioned reason of 'building self-esteem' -- we've made kids believe the falsehood of "you can be anything you want to be if you just put your mind to it." (I'll never be a sub-3-minute miler, no matter HOW hard I 'put my mind to it!').

 

A very good friend of mine in coaching gets massacred by people in his community because of kids he's coached who have been built up at home or elsewhere to be the next 'full-ride' kid. He knows based on experience (HS coaching AND D-1 playing) that the kid is 'missing something' the colleges require (e.g., height, frame-size, speed, hips, etc.). When the kid invariably doesn't get that full-ride, there's criticism that the coach didn't do enough for him (and this guy does as much or more than any HS coach I know to help his players get recruited).

 

** In Kentucky, an average range of only 16-22 HS football players a year sign an LOI for a full-ride to a BCS or I-AA school (stats of last 4 years). Let's average that to 19.

** If the 220-or-so football playing HSs in the state average 12-15 seniors on their team, that means there are about 2645-3300 seniors playing football in a given season. Let's average that to 2970.

** That means in a typical year, the chances of a Sr. football player in Ky. getting a 'full-ride' in football is about 19:2970...or 0.6%.

 

Bottom line: to get a full-ride, you have to be very, VERY good. To get one playing in Kentucky, in a way you have to be even better -- because our poor history of producing D-1 caliber talent makes D-1 coaches look down their nose at our kids.

 

By the way, having that D-1 caliber kid is great to have (blessed with a couple this year myself). But to have a successful HIGH SCHOOL football team year-in/year-out, I'd be just fine every year with a team full of hard-nosed/tough kids who are committed enough to train every week of the off-season to reach their best athletically. The key is that every kid you let play must meet a minimum standard of 'athleticism' but must be DISCIPLINED enough to do their jobs right every play, regardless of any other factor.

 

In other words, a lot of 'non-D-1' kids would meet my definition of 'good enough' anyday!

 

Those stats should be posted on every lockeroom wall in KY. and in a hand out given to every parent.

For those making the argument: is D1 really the "best of the best"?

 

 

Jerry Rice - Mississippi Valley State

Brett Favre - Southern Mississippi

Randy Moss - Marshall (D1AA at the time)

Chad Pennington - Marshall

Byron Lefwitch - Marshall

Al Harris Texas A&M-Kingsville

Adam Vinatieri South Dakota State

Ken Anderson, Augustana

Lyle Alzado, Yankton

Jon Kitna, Central Washington

Walter Payton, Jackson State

Art Shell, Maryland-Eastern Shore

Gene Upshaw, Texas A & I

 

 

While these players have performed well at the NFL level, playing at less than a D-1 program proves you are not good enough to make the "best of the best" cut. Sincerely, Joe Flacco