October 21, 200520 yr I have no reason to fabricate anything...come down to the school and you can interview the kids....all seniors and Juniors....and you can see for yourself, we will go out to lunch and have a good laugh about the whole thing. And when you get right down to it leadership has nothing to do with it. I am sure this will come as a surprise to many of the elite private schools but us hillbillies can read and so can our kids....that is how they know. they have seen what has gone on for years. If your kids truley believe this, then that should be your answer on why they don't win state titles. If any athlete is for watering down competition they are not a true athlete period.
October 21, 200520 yr Turn a blind eye? I've never said that. This is 100% not the right solution IMO. Did something need to be done? YES. This was far from the answer, and will make the "even playing field" worse. Much like putting Louisville on opposite sides of 4A many moons ago. There are solutions to problems, and there are misguided shots in the dark at the wrong target. It's clear where I stand... Gametime: I never said you were turning a blind eye. Certainly you and I agree there are problems here. I won't say this is the best solution, but absent some other critical and thoughtful ideas, I personally don't see that this decision is so disasterous. Many of those on the private side of the isle say that this will only make the disparity larger. If that is the case then what is the problem with the powerful getting more powerful and competing against those in like situations. Thus leaving the rest of the sorry public schools to determine an empty title as many others have said. Fans can attend all the titles and enjoy the spirit of competition and applaud the efforts of all associated. The efforts of Lex Caths players should be no more admired than those of Caverna.
October 21, 200520 yr If you discuss the subject of private vs public, all of the private school supporters claim there is no invitations of individuals for sports. Its all about the better education and the religious and social values as the advantages. So why has this proposal to split athletic championships drawn such anger and genuine bitterness from you people? It really is condescending the way many of you portray those who have a difference of opinion with you on this subject. Almost every person whom sides with the privates use adages of a worthless championship if you don't compete against a clearly superior opponent such as the privates are. These same people claim privates dont have athletic advantages, if they don't have any advantages then how do these split championships not have any value. If the playing field is level as you all claim then both private and public championships certainly should be coveted. You can't have it both ways. Only private school supporters will diminish a state championship by Sheldon Clark, if they don't beat a private school. I feel certain all of Martin County would pour in to whatever venue it is to supporter their local kids. What is any different to split privates for titles than to split school size. Is Beechwoods titles in Class A tarnished by the fact they didn't beat Trinity? Is Belfry's titles meaningless because they didn't beat Cov Cath? What ever helps you sleep at night. Its good to know that in parts of the state we teach our kids to run away from a challange , rather than face it. First off for all you people from public schools who have no clue, no private school in this state openly offers athletic scholarships. But if this passes fully, don't be surprised if some boosters start doing it out of spite. We have every right to be angry because you messed with the lively hood of our children. Unlike most public schools, private schools consider their community a family. I know speaking for myself if you mess with my family i'm not going down without a fight. :fight:
October 21, 200520 yr They defeated teams in their "Class". But they aren't the true champion. You guys argue that you have to beat the best to be a "True" and not watered down "whining" champion. Beechwood and Belfry should have to beat the AAA and/or AAAA champion to be a "True Champion". Class A champion means nothing, just like Private School Champion or Public School Champion. It's watered down. Not my words but it is the argument you guys are making. Classifying by school size makes sense, you are classing schools together of equal size. Classifying someone by the religous domination or the fact they don't recieve federal aid is outrageous. I don't understand how we have such an unfair advantage. If kids want to come to a private school they have to pay atleast 50% of the tution. Which is thousands of dollars. Public schools are free. Public schools are free to open district lines as most have in NKY. Jealousy, envy, greed, and ingorance passed this vote.
October 21, 200520 yr I AM WANTIng to HERE from the Private's About this. THIS is a pleade from an AD from IN, to Jefferson county AD's not to buge or give in to the Private schools. -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Branch [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:40 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: [heur] October 19, 2005 MEMO FROM: Tony Branch, Athletic Director, Jeffersonville H.S.; IN____________ TO: JCPS Athletic Directors; Please share with your principals ___________________ RE: Proposal One – Keep rule that 20 mile radius cannot cross state lines. Please consider keeping the original Proposal One plan that the 20 mile radius WILL NOT extend into another state. The proponents of separation stated in an Oct. 14th Courier Journal article that the lack of boundaries for private schools is one of their main concerns. If the public schools allow the athletic boundary of the Jefferson County private schools to cross state lines into the state of Indiana; geography will provide the private schools with 50% more boundary than the public schools since the Ohio River separates Jefferson County and Indiana. You would defeat your purpose of establishing fair boundaries for all schools in the KHSAA. Jeffersonville High School is located in the state of Indiana. It is across the Ohio River and one mile north of Louisville, KY. In approximately the past six years, Jeffersonville has lost several outstanding football athletes to Louisville private schools: Donald Barnett – Current running back at Trinity H.S. He is one of the top football players in the state of KY. His current residence is in Jeffersonville. Trea Burgess – Attended Trinity H.S. as a freshman & soph. Then transferred back to Jeffersonville H.S. in 2004 school year as a junior. He is Jeffersonville’s most outstanding football player & one of the top football players in Southern Indiana. Burgess has rushed for over 1,000 yards this season. Ken Fuller – Attended Trinity as a freshman & Soph. then returned to Jeffersonville H.S. Willie Williams – Graduated in 2004. Outstanding quarterback. Attended a Louisville private school for two years then transferred back to Jeffersonville H.S. Cruz May – Left for private Louisville school & played four years there. Chase Bean – Attended Trinity H.S. as a freshman. Stayed there for one & one-half years then transferred back to Jeffersonville H.S. this current school year. Ed Wright – Current freshman at Jeffersonville H.S. He is our most outstanding freshman football player. He Quarterbacks the JV and plays varsity as a freshman. He was courted in middle school by St. X. They had him on the sideline of their state championship game in 2004. Antonio Veals – A great football player and athlete. He played football for four years at Trinity and had an Outstanding football career at Western Kentucky University. He has finished his athletic eligibility at Western Kentucky Univ. and has just been hired by the Jeffersonville Fire Dept. Donovan Sims – One of our two most talented sophomore players this current year. He transferred back to Jeffersonville after spending one year at Trinity H.S. If Trea Burgess (2nd player listed) did not transfer back to Jeffersonville, Trinity would currently have our top two football players this season. It is obvious to me that the Louisville private schools identify our best athletes in middle school as early as the 6th and 7th grades and then implement an organized recruitment process to persuade these selected athletes to attend their schools. This recruitment consists of handing out business cards, having current private school student-athletes e-mail them, invites to open house and shadowing, phone calls, and offers of financial aid. It is alarming to me and damaging to our athletic programs that Kentucky private schools can come into our state and recruit our best athletes to play in Kentucky High School athletics. Please be firm on your proposal one that where athletic eligibility is concerned, KHSAA member schools boundary cannot extend across state lines into another state. In other words, no out of state resident may participate in KHSAA athletics. Consider that both Trinity and St. Xavier already have 1,500 to 1,600 boys. The Louisville public schools have approximately 1,400 to 1,800 students (girls & boys). Only half (700 to 900) of those students in public schools are boys. Trinity & St.X out number the public schools by 700 to 900 male athletes. If you also allow private schools to bring in top athletes from Indiana or out of state, you will make it very difficult for the public schools to establish an equitable balance of athletic talent with private schools. The original Proposal One would be effective because it would mandate the same eligibility requirements for both public and private schools. To be effective, proposal one would require the legal guardian of student-athlete in question to provide proof of consistent residency in the state of Kentucky in order for the student to gain athletic eligibility. Students whose legal guardians are not residents of the state of Kentucky should not be given athletic eligibility in the KHSAA. The Archdiocese’s proposal would not allow students outside a 20 mile radius of their school to play varsity sports during their first year at the private school. This is not a concession. Most freshmen are not ready to compete on the varsity level. Therefore the private schools may still recruit outstanding athletes from outside their radius and across state lines to be in their freshman and junior varsity feeder programs. These athletes residing in Indiana & from outside the 20 mile radius would be allowed to compete all four years as is now the case. Nothing would have changed from the current system.
October 21, 200520 yr If HC's kids win a title, be it a state championship or district title, whatever alignment they are in, it should be celebrated and acknowledged. The players and coaches worked hard to get their kids in that position and deserve credit. My school routinely gets displaced in the playoffs by NKY in Class A. I used to dislike the Beechwood Tigers. But as I have traveled to Louisville the past 18 years and watched the state finals I have developed a great admiration for the red and white clad Tigers. I feel like in most years they were clearly better than the AA Champion. But that didnt make me feel that the AA Champion was not to be celebrated. The KHSAA aligns as they see fit and I respect that decision. So if they realign and make new championships then I will watch and celebrate Owensboro Catholics title in Private Class AA just as I would Belfry Public Class AA. I certainly dont think the public champion deserves a wooden yellow bellied shallow worthless trophy and O Cath a solid gold 10 foot statue. Yes, lets celebrate a title , in which we elimnated are greatest competition in our class. Yes kids this is how you win in Ky. Eliminate all competion before the season starts.
October 21, 200520 yr Your hilarious, I hope a title that means nothing, makes you sleep well at night. Nothing condecending in this statement is there? A title without beating a private school means nothing. There you go!!!
October 21, 200520 yr Nothing condecending in this statement is there? A title without beating a private school means nothing. There you go!!! No, a title without beating all your competition means nothing. Period. If the only way your perspective school can win a title is by eliminating some of the best competition. This is a sad day in education.
October 21, 200520 yr No, a title without beating all your competition means nothing. Period. If the only way your perspective school can win a title is by eliminating some of the best competition. This is a sad day in education. I guess with your mindset here Highlands, St. X, Beechwood, Danville, Boyle County, etc, needs to quit thumping their chests so much about those football titles.
October 21, 200520 yr I guess with your mindset here Highlands, St. X, Beechwood, Danville, Boyle County, etc, needs to quit thumping their chests so much about those football titles. ?????????????????????????? No you just proved my point that quality public programs are able to beat private schools. Maybe instead of bickering public school mimick public school programs who win.
October 21, 200520 yr I guess with your mindset here Highlands, St. X, Beechwood, Danville, Boyle County, etc, needs to quit thumping their chests so much about those football titles. How so? They played and beat everyone, private or public that they could and didn't complain about unfair advantages in the process. I just think this is cowardly of public schools to just eliminate schools from competition against them all together when it comes to titles.
October 21, 200520 yr How so? They played and beat everyone, private or public that they could and didn't complain about unfair advantages in the process. I just think this is cowardly of public schools to just eliminate schools from competition against them all together when it comes to titles. I don't recall Highlands defeating St. X in the playoffs. The ones that voted for this proposal will take the stance that it is simply another class of playoffs like the classes in football. You do not expect Beechwood to compete with St. X nor do you belittle their state title because they did not beat St. X. It is looked at as a state title.
October 21, 200520 yr I'm not going to direct this reply to any one individual poster, but I'm going to try and ramble my way through why I and my son and daughter are so upset by this. I'll begin with, it's not about the sports, it's about principles. The Private schools have worked extremely hard, dedicated a lot of time, money, effort, and sweat into building their schools into some of the best in the state; not just athletically, academically and spiritually as well. We've invested more than just the tangibles into our schools. We're tied to them emotionally, and we begin dreaming of the day our kids will attend in the future. I feel this is an applicable statement to the majority of Private School parents and Alumni. The proof is in the number of Alumni that return to teach, coach, fundraise, attend events, and donate to fundraising campaigns. The fact that we've abided by the rules, as set forth by the KHSAA, and continued to become successful, and that the Public schools have decided that we must be "cheating" just sticks in our craws! The mere realization that at any time the Public schools don't like the success that we've achieved are able to change the rules is absolutely galling! The fact that there are channels and avenues that should be utilized if any misconduct is suspected, and that the public schools are unwilling to report or utilize the channels in case of such illegal activities, but would rather not utilize the existing system, instead choosing to just eliminate the private schools is completely reprehensible to me! Public schools have nothing to lose from these proposals. In fact, if they don't like the circumstances a few years down the road, they'll take more action to "even the playing field", and so on and so on, and so on. This is permanant for the Private schools, though. I really doubt the public schools will vote for the Private schools' return if things don't work out they way they envision. We're so emotionally tied to our schools that it's possible that some public/private split proponents may not be able to understand. We realize this affects not just our children, but our grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, and so on and so on. So, let's go back to the "leveling the playing field" comments. As I said in another thread, it seems that the Public schools feel that it's fair for them to have a level playing field, but that the Private schools are somehow not due the same consideration. So, now you've put the smaller privates in a terrible predicament, athletically....most obviously in football. I feel that it's possible that with the exception of football, we may all be able to somewhat be competitive in basketball and a few other sports. I don't dispute that. But, I didn't see anyone clammoring from the Public schools that the playing field wasn't level in baseball, for instance. But there are still some schools that will lose some sports. One other thing....My blood boils whenever I hear that the public schools will "allow" us to play them in the regular season! For the love of God, WHY?! If you can't be competitive with us in the post-season, why, OH WHY do you want to play us in the regular season? Is it the gate receipts when events are hosted at your school? Is it so that if you do beat us, you still have that "glory", without sacrificing your precious post-season? The fact that the word "allow" is used is infuriating! I can understand, and will support the private schools, if we wind up having to accept this, and play these games this way. But, I will absolutely be hoping that the private schools find another way, that they organize statewide as St.ThomasMore has suggested, and find an alternative to playing public schools that will work for even the smallest of the private schools. Again, it's not specifically an athletic issue with us. It's the principle. We feel we've been unfairly targeted, when there are far more issues involved with the state of athletics in public schools....participation percentages, per student population, the lack of organized athletics in the grade school/middle school years, the lack of committment on the part of those that could either financially or with their time, help their school's programs. Those issues will not be resolved by this split. They may actually become more glaringly obvious, as the focus on the private schools will not be able to be used as an excuse. But the real question is, what will be blamed at that point? It will be interesting to see whether the issues will be addressed, or if more competition will be eliminated.
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