Also, if you work in a doctor's office prepare for the volume to go up. 32 million uninsured Americans will head your way soon it sounds like.

 

You really think they haven't been going because they are uninsured?

 

My doctors office offers a deal for existing patients, who have no insurance. An office visit is only $50.

 

Now that I have insurance (through my wife for now, and it's not good insurance) I pay over $50 :lol:.

 

Hopefully my new job will have much better insurance.

I also do not agree that everyone deserves a "right" to medical care. It is a privilege and it is a business. If you want charity then send them to a free clinic or a religious hospital.

That's fine, but they still need to be cared for. That's what I'm saying.

The constitution says nothing about me being responsible for EVERYBODY. It says nothing about the governmment being responsible for EVERYBODY.

 

You sure do like redistributing what EVERYBODY else has.

 

You must not have understood my post.

It should be available to all Americans and it is. Someone else paying your way should never be a right.

I didn't mean that.

 

A product of any kind should never be a right.

I don't consider survival to be a product.

Wow:eek:

You sure added plenty of drama with your characterization. I agree with Pep's thoughts on the matter. It's the drama added to the argument in favor of the bill that clouds the crux of it's legality.

I just characterized exactly what you said.

That's fine, but they still need to be cared for. That's what I'm saying.

 

 

If that's the case then become an advocate for charity and start making ads with Sarah Mclachlan songs showing pictures of those in need to try to garner donations. Don't make it law.

RM,

 

IMO, the difference between this and the other social programs is that the other programs are paid for via taxes. Which whether we agree with the programs or not, has been deemed to be constitutional. They didn't do that here. What their doing here is compelling people to purchase insurance as a condition of being a US citizen. Whether they want insurance or not. In turn they are also forcing them to pay a portion of someone else's insurance. They did it this way so that they can say they didn't raise taxes. No matter how much this looks like taxing and then spending it is not. It is a direct redistribution of one persons income to another. It opens the door to so many other violations of our rights and personal properties. All they have to do is say "We don't have to raise taxes, we'll just make it a condition of citizenship to purchase it." Because one of the surest ways to get voted out of office is to raise taxes. IMO it is unconstitutional.

 

This should and will be fought fiercly in the courts.

 

I also think for now 13 states think it is unconstitutional as well.

I don't like the bill, but agree that changes should be made. I don't want them shot by a blowgun down my throat. The conservative bunch needs to get off their butts and not only oppose the bill, but come up with some solutions of their own.

:thumb:

I also think for now 13 states think it is unconstitutional as well.

 

No, 13 state Attorneys General. There are several governors who do not support what their AsG are doing.

If that's the case then become an advocate for charity and start making ads with Sarah Mclachlan songs showing pictures of those in need to try to garner donations. Don't make it law.

I was not involved in any such productions.

I believe everyone in this thread agrees that there should be some changes to help make insurance availible to everyone. The difference lies in how to arrive at that point and to what degree. The left has said that the right is intolerant, partisan and has no ideas. Yet the partisanship came from the left as they were the only ones to vote for the bill and Obama came up with the child like line "John, I won the election" The right believes in self resposibility and smaller government. This is being mislabeled as intolerance. Ideas of tort reform, looking for waste and mismanagement in Medicare and Medicaid and selling insurance across state lines were proposed by the right. These ideas should have been tried before enacting this unconstitutional bill that will just be another dollar sucking, bloated government program.

I am totally amazed by this Tea Party led argument that the health care bill is unconstitutional because everyone has to buy insurance. That is just totally dumbfounding to me. So the problem is we all now have to get insurance? That is the complaint? Am I getting that right? People are complaining because this bill is trying to make sure everyone has health insurance? Wow..... Please think about that for a second. What is wrong with everyone having health insurance?

 

This argument that this bill is some new level of government intrusiveness is so bogus. We all abide by laws and regulations every single day. We all are required to pay taxes for the greater good of our society and to support our great states and nation. We have in the past had laws that drafted young men to go to war and lay down their lives for our country. Our children are required by law to get an education. There are laws throughout our society that tell us things we must do for the greater good. The argument this bill is unconstitutional reminds me of these people who say our tax laws are unconstitutional and you don't have to pay taxes.

 

People ... please step back and think about what just happened. For over 100 years, presidents starting with Teddy Roosevelt have tried to enact health care legislation. We all have complained about our health care for most of our lives. Rates go up every year, coverages go down and we all bear the cost of those who do not have coverage. This bill is not government insurance. It is a great first attempt at addressing one of the biggest problems facing all of us in today's society. The health care crisis is one of the main reasons Obama was elected. And now people are complaining because Obama stood behind his campaign promise and came through for those who voted for him by enacting health care reform. I applaud Obama making one of his campaign cornerstones reality and I applaud this great bill as a step towards making the USA an even greater nation.

 

 

You sound like Saul Alinsky.

I believe everyone in this thread agrees that there should be some changes to help make insurance availible to everyone. The difference lies in how to arrive at that point and to what degree. The left has said that the right is intolerant, partisan and has no ideas. Yet the partisanship came from the left as they were the only ones to vote for the bill and Obama came up with the child like line "John, I won the election" The right believes in self resposibility and smaller government. This is being mislabeled as intolerance. Ideas of tort reform, looking for waste and mismanagement in Medicare and Medicaid and selling insurance across state lines were proposed by the right. These ideas should have been tried before enacting this unconstitutional bill that will just be another dollar sucking, bloated government program.

 

I actually disagree with the bolded. I am of the mindset that a third party payer is part of the problem, be it government or private insurance.

Nice fear mongering attempt but not accurate. The health care system is still a free enterprise with private insurance companies and health care providers. I guess you also thought the Communists were going to take over the world if we didn't stop them in Vietnam. Well, we didn't stop them in Vietnam but I haven't seen the world go Communist since then. Next....

 

 

(By the way, I liked your previous "last post" ... I wish you had stopped there. )

 

Communism didn't take over the world because their socialistic societies collapse on themselves.

You really think they haven't been going because they are uninsured?

 

My doctors office offers a deal for existing patients, who have no insurance. An office visit is only $50.

 

Now that I have insurance (through my wife for now, and it's not good insurance) I pay over $50 :lol:.

 

Hopefully my new job will have much better insurance.

 

Many, many won't go. It goes back to what RM said about why ER's are often so busy because it's where most go without insurance. There are lil operations like an urgent care who will settle for cash payments. They love it, no insurance to deal with and if you have ever been to an urgent care you are seen for 2 mins and out the door, assuming its just a basic cold or something.

 

You must also remember many of the 32 million can't afford even a 50 dollar payment. So if they mave a medicaid type program they are going to go in. And i'm sure you've read by now about the doctor shortage which might grow since most MD's are upset about this plan.