The Tubby/BCG Debate

[gametime]

Let's finally have the :deadhorse: debate have a home.

 

1. Gillispie cleans up messes. That's his background. This mess isn't cleaning up easy.

 

2. Tubby left a talent void. His background was cleaning up messes too.

 

3. Aren't they pretty much one in the same in a lot of ways?

 

4. Both are often too stubborn for their own good.

 

5. Which mess is worse. Tubby when he got to Minnesota or BCG when he got to UK.

 

Add as you see fit. Just remember to color within the lines... :popcorn:

[racer4life]

6. The only difference I see between the two is BCG doesn't have a son that is a terrible player that he can bring in to run the point as Tubby did.

[SouthernSportsFan]

Not just because I am a UK homer, but this is the way I see it.

 

Gillispie came into a situation of dysfunction, as did Tubby. But Gillispie also came in and immediately had injuries to Jasper and Meeks, two of the better young players left by Smith and had a grueling schedule, that included a good Indiana, Louisville, North Carolina, San Diego, UAB, and Houston.

 

Smith, on the other hand, entered into a situation with a few players that were alright, but not great. Yet, he opened the season and continued with a very, very soft schedule that lead him to building their confidence and their stats. Add with that a Big 10 that was down, outside of Indiana really, and a conference that was better suited for his defensive-minded team.

[ScarHeel]

I would have to think Tubb's mess was worse when he got to Minnesota considering they went 9-22 the season before but then again, coaching at UK is a mess from the start because of the unrealistic expectations some UK fans have.

[John Anthony]

The mess at UK is getting ugly. UK has one senior left by Tubby who may not play more than 30 mins the whole year due to lack of ability. Outside of Meeks there is a lack of scoring and again we only have one big man in Patterson. How often have we seen this trend? Without Randolph Morris and the magic fax, I firmly believe UK's tournament streak ended a few years ago. This team has no depth a Tubby trademark.

[Gunner11]

2. Yes the talent level had dipped a little, but not a huge drop. As early as 2004-05 recruiting class was number 1 rated. Although this class was arguably Tubby's undoing as Rondo and Morris left early and Morris never realized his potential. Crawford and Bradley stayed all 4 years and had decent careers. This class and the Sheray Thomas/Bobby Perry class were the beginning of the end for Tubby.

 

4. Tubby, while he may be stuborn, is 3X the coach that BCG is. IMO he knows and reads the game much better than BCG. He is a master at keeping the other team off balance by switching defenses and preparing to counter what the opponent does best (that is probably the most important thing he learned under Pitino, because if Tubby is the master, Pitino is the wizard). Tubby makes in game adjustments and does not try to fit a square peg in a round hole like BCG.

 

5. Minnesota's mess was far, far, far worse. Tubby inherited a team that was 9-21. BCG inherited a team that was 22-12. Tubby went 18-12 in his first year with Minnesota, BCG 18-13. The SEC has been a shadow of its former self in the last 2 seasons as well. When UK was crushing the SEC under Tubby, the SEC had much more depth and talent than it does now.

[HammerTime]

Tubby can COACH wayyyyyyy better.

[TubbyCAT]

Well said Gunner11!

 

Tubby is a tremendous in-game coach!

[UKMustangFan]

Tubby is hands down a better in game coach. If I had a choice between the two to lead my program, I'd take Tubby 10 out of 10 times. Coach Gillispie doesn't seem to make any adjustments in game, and there are times where I think he just doesn't have a clue what's going on. I'm really starting to doubt him.

[racer4life]

2. Yes the talent level had dipped a little, but not a huge drop. As early as 2004-05 recruiting class was number 1 rated. Although this class was arguably Tubby's undoing as Rondo and Morris left early and Morris never realized his potential. Crawford and Bradley stayed all 4 years and had decent careers. This class and the Sheray Thomas/Bobby Perry class were the beginning of the end for Tubby.

 

4. Tubby, while he may be stuborn, is 3X the coach that BCG is. IMO he knows and reads the game much better than BCG. He is a master at keeping the other team off balance by switching defenses and preparing to counter what the opponent does best (that is probably the most important thing he learned under Pitino, because if Tubby is the master, Pitino is the wizard). Tubby makes in game adjustments and does not try to fit a square peg in a round hole like BCG.

 

5. Minnesota's mess was far, far, far worse. Tubby inherited a team that was 9-21. BCG inherited a team that was 22-12. Tubby went 18-12 in his first year with Minnesota, BCG 18-13. The SEC has been a shadow of its former self in the last 2 seasons as well. When UK was crushing the SEC under Tubby, the SEC had much more depth and talent than it does now.

 

Good post Gunner.

[letabrotherspeak]

2. Yes the talent level had dipped a little, but not a huge drop. As early as 2004-05 recruiting class was number 1 rated. Although this class was arguably Tubby's undoing as Rondo and Morris left early and Morris never realized his potential. Crawford and Bradley stayed all 4 years and had decent careers. This class and the Sheray Thomas/Bobby Perry class were the beginning of the end for Tubby.

 

4. Tubby, while he may be stuborn, is 3X the coach that BCG is. IMO he knows and reads the game much better than BCG. He is a master at keeping the other team off balance by switching defenses and preparing to counter what the opponent does best (that is probably the most important thing he learned under Pitino, because if Tubby is the master, Pitino is the wizard). Tubby makes in game adjustments and does not try to fit a square peg in a round hole like BCG.

 

5. Minnesota's mess was far, far, far worse. Tubby inherited a team that was 9-21. BCG inherited a team that was 22-12. Tubby went 18-12 in his first year with Minnesota, BCG 18-13. The SEC has been a shadow of its former self in the last 2 seasons as well. When UK was crushing the SEC under Tubby, the SEC had much more depth and talent than it does now.

 

I still think BCG is a really good X and O guy. I think his stubborness on defense overshadows a lot. If you know the game you notice plays and situations in which BCG does a really good job. He is by far a superior OB, SLOB situation coach.

If you notice OTS is not playing much the same way now as he did at UK the last few years.

I dont remember UK playing much zone under OTS at UK.

I think the players are in far far better condition now than the last few years.

Look at the shape Patrick Sparks was in when he left UK.

I also feel that OTS came into a situation at Minnesota where the players were starving to be coached and were obedient from day 1.

BCG has had to come in a change a culture and had to shape his two leaders last year in Bradley and Crawford.

I think both are very good coaches...both situation were/are unique.

[cch5432]

I am still willing to give BCG a chance. I don't see the constant adjustments that can be made that everyone claims he has missed. There is not anyone here that can play.

 

Basically, the way I look at it, Patterson, while he can score, needs to have a shooter. He draws a lot of double teams, and in the past he used to dish out. But no one can hit open 3's- even Jodie is not much of a stand still shooter. So now he is being forced to take it with multiple defenders.

 

I think Darius Miller, DeAndre Liggins, and Kevin Galloway are 3 guys that could develop into excellent players. I think this year will help them. But they are relying on them way too much- I don't think Coach Gillispie has a choice.

 

I say give him a chance. We lost patience with Tubby when he could no longer do it with his players. He was an excellent in-game coach- and I love the fact that he took Pitino's players and formulated a system that worked for them.

 

BCG is not as good as adjusting, but I think he knows how to build a team. He needs more time than Tubby did. We'll see how wrong I am in the next few years (or next few posts)

[HT721]

Tubby didn't leave a talent void need you forget Tubby had already almost convinced Patterson to come here and had convinced Meeks.

[letabrotherspeak]

Tubby didn't leave a talent void need you forget Tubby had already almost convinced Patterson to come here and had convinced Meeks.

 

Tubby had almost convinced Patterson to come? He was considered a Florida lean most of the time.

After he left, UK fell to a distant third.

BCG overcame UF and Duke to get him.

Meeks was hurt most of last year.

He left a serviceable player in Jasper, but he left.

Right now, within one year plus, Tubby left Harris, Carter, Porter, AJ Stewart, and Stevenson. Cant forget the lovely and talented Mike Williams.

[gametime]

Tubby had almost convinced Patterson to come? He was considered a Florida lean most of the time.

 

Revisionist history...