The fact that you and I disagree on when life begins does not make you a better Christian than me. period

 

If you feel that the fetus is not a soul or a LIFE upon conception, really fights at the core of being a Christian, IMO....

I don't understand your logic. I will not vote for a man that is dead set on keeping abortion legal and that wants to do away with any laws that restrict abortion. No, the candidate doesn't have to be Jesus, he or she only needs to know that abortion is against God. It's that simple. God will not, and according to His word, cannot, bless a nation that continues down that path.

 

 

My logic is that if you are only going to vote along the teachings of the bible, then how can you ever vote as no candidate ever reaches those lofty ideals.

 

Is Abortion the only issue from scripture that is important? Which items from scripture are most important in this election, in any election? Why does Abortion rank so much higher than doing anything about poverty? Why does it rank higher than the government trying to stamp out indecency and behavior that goes against the 10 Commandments?

 

Should adultery be illegal? Should abortion be illegal? Should alcohol be illegal? Should the death penalty be legal?

 

Say the answer is yes, according to the bible, on all of these issues. Should a candidate NOT receive your vote because he only agrees with 3 out of 4? As it is, allowing that 1 evil to still be legal in our society is still perpetuating a systemic and legal form of evil and debauchery.

 

Just trying to understand your perspective here.

:thumb: I was going to look for this today. Thanks for finding it for me.

If you can believe Obama, which I can't.

 

Obama protected abortionists rather than the helpless infants that were being killed. That’s the record, and Obama cannot hide from it.

If you can believe Obama, which I can't.

 

Obama protected abortionists rather than the helpless infants that were being killed. That’s the record, and Obama cannot hide from it.

 

Having read "Audacity of Hope" and his explanation in it, I do understand his reasoning behind the vote (he discusses it in the book).

 

As for the 2nd sentence, that is your analysis, of which you are entitled to, but not mine.

Having read "Audacity of Hope" and his explanation in it, I do understand his reasoning behind the vote (he discusses it in the book).

 

As for the 2nd sentence, that is your analysis, of which you are entitled to, but not mine.

Which excuse does he cite in his book? The one that Obama before a copy of the version of the bill containing the language that he claimed was missing was discovered or his current excuses?

Acemona, I only want people to understand their sin, that we all have sinned, and that we all have offended a Holy God, and according to the Word of God, "He is angry with the wicked everyday." No one will ever be saved or even have a desire to know what salvation is until they first understand their sin. Jesus said He came to save sinners and that the whole need not a physcian, but those that are sick. If the Bible calls a paticular act a sin we should take sides with the Bible against ourselves. We sin because we are sinners, we are not sinners because we sin. Our very nature is sin. There is only one cure for our sin, only one way to have our sin forgiven, only one way to be reconciled to God, only one way to escape the eternal fires of hell, only one way to have a personal relationship with God. That way is through the Gospel of Jesus Christ, how that He died for our sins, was buried, and arose again the third day. Only by the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ can hell deserving sinners have their sins taken away and forgiven. The Word says that God commands all men everywhere to repent, or to turn from their sinful ways, turn from their own way, forsake their sins, and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The one that has the Son has life and that life will cause a person to have a new perspective on this life and the life to come. Those that refuse to repent will perish. This is not my opinion but what Jesus said.

 

The Lord saved me at a very early age and I am thankful for that fact. He, in a sense, saved my life as I desired to draw closer to him and avoid the typical temptations a young person faces. I am not perfect, was not perfect and will never be perfect and without Jesus I can do nothing. My husband was saved later in his twenties and had spent his teen years in sin and apart from God. I have asked him to share his testimony with those who would be interested.

 

"When I was 15 years of age I got into trouble and as a result I was filled with guilt, I had a sense of shame because I had so disappointed my parents. This led me to embrace religion and make a profession of faith. I was baptized and joined a church and called myself a Christian. The only problem with all of it was the fact that I never had a sense of godly sorrow, I was simply sorry I got caught, I had a worldly sorrow. This only led to a false sense of security but it did not led to a changed life---- I continued my sinful ways, drunkenness, drugs, fornication, stealing, etc. I found myself in and out of jail numerous times,and facing court appointed drug counsellors. I was ordered by a judge, in Lexington, Ky., to attend AA and seek counseling from a pyschiastrist or leave the city, I chose to leave the city. I continued a life of self destruction and became suicidal. I considered taking my life several times, but I just could not find the guts to do it. When I was 26 years old I finally came to the place where I realized that I had sinned against God and I was in real danger of perishing in my sins. I was filled with guilt and so convicted of the life I had been living. It started bothering me when I would take God's name in vain, I started feeling out of place when I would go to parties, etc. but I still could not find relief. I was so miserable. At last someone shared with me the precious Gospel of Jesus Christ, I was shown from the Bible that Jesus died for all my sins and that if I would trust Him I could be forgiven and have Gods favor restored. That day I repented of my sins and trusted Christ as my Savior and He changed my life. I am far from perfect but He worked godly sorrow in my heart and caused me to want to turn to Him. I praise God for His mercy and love. I am not what I used to be and am not yet what I want to be. If I could stop sinning I would stop altogether and never sin again but that is not possible here on this earth. One day in heaven it will be. I hope this will help someone. God Bless."

 

So you see, we do love souls, we do care about the state of our country . . . but more than anything people need to realize that they are sinners and in need of a Savior. This is more important than any political decision any of us will ever make.

 

 

These are beautiful testimonies and they are moving, but they have nothing to do with the defense of your origianl post and my reply to it. Why is your crusade against sexual sins and not against them all. I think John McCain's policy support the GREEDY - that is the sin most railed against by Jesus, why not you.

 

Jesus said BELOVED ARE THE PEACEMAKERS - John wants to continue the war and continue the US in the sin of not loving their enemies and blessing those who curse us.

 

John wants to Drill Baby Drill and continue to harm God's creation, why are you not voting against that.

 

The reason people don't vote against these things is because ia vote against them is a vote against self-interest. Homosexuality and Abortion are easy to rail against b/c few conservative people would participate in them - however, all of the other sins, especially, those condemned by Jesus - self-righeousness, greed, disregard of those in prison, dismissal of the poor are not discussed by conservatives b/c to make those changes is to change the way you view your life and it is against your own self interest.

If you feel that the fetus is not a soul or a LIFE upon conception, really fights at the core of being a Christian, IMO....

 

I can understand your convictions lead you that way but I'm not sure that the theological debate of conception is listed as pretext for being a Christian.

 

I know it's not in the Apostle's Creed and early confessions nor when the NT speaks of salvation it lists that as pretext of conversion. It might be included as necessary in your church's catacheism, I don't know.

If you can believe Obama, which I can't.

 

Obama protected abortionists rather than the helpless infants that were being killed. That’s the record, and Obama cannot hide from it.

 

 

I believe a phrase the gun crowd uses freqently is "Enforce the laws already on the books" instead of passing new ones. Since there was already a law on the books in Illinois, I find it curious that you choose to ignore that fact in your criticism of Obama over this issue.

 

Even McCain and Palin haven't gone so far as to claim that Obama supports infanticide. At least as far as I know.

Well, as a Christian I am compelled to let my religious views, and morals dictate my political decisions...because at the end of everything with my beliefs that IS #1....

 

 

Am I to infer from your comment that you don't believe that I have strong religious convictions or morals because I choose to separate the abortion issue and some other issues from my decision?

 

Do you feel as strongly about adultery and divorce?

Question:

 

For all who wish abortion to be illegal...if RvW were to be overturned, what more would you do, assuming that you voted for the candidate that was against abortion is one step you previously took? I'm assuming you'd offer thanks to God. But would you consider the matter righted?

 

 

No one's answered this question. No thoughts on this one?

^RM, I've given up on trying to get questions answered in this thread. Good luck.

Question:

 

For all who wish abortion to be illegal...if RvW were to be overturned, what more would you do, assuming that you voted for the candidate that was against abortion is one step you previously took? I'm assuming you'd offer thanks to God. But would you consider the matter righted?

 

If Roe v Wade were overturned I would indeed give thanks to God. However, I don't know how the murder of untold numbers of babies could ever be righted. That being said I would continue to campaign for candidates who would appoint conservatives judges in the court systems so that the protection would continue for our unborn. I hope this answers your question.

If Roe v Wade were overturned I would indeed give thanks to God. However, I don't know how the murder of untold numbers of babies could ever be righted. That being said I would continue to campaign for candidates who would appoint conservatives judges in the court systems so that the protection would continue for our unborn. I hope this answers your question.

 

 

To a degree. Is that all the responsibility you feel necessary?

Question:

 

For all who wish abortion to be illegal...if RvW were to be overturned, what more would you do, assuming that you voted for the candidate that was against abortion is one step you previously took? I'm assuming you'd offer thanks to God. But would you consider the matter righted?

 

^RM, I've given up on trying to get questions answered in this thread. Good luck.

I would donate money to organizations whose purpose is to fight illegal, underground, and homemade abortions, through prosecution and education. I would support candidates who would try to educate the masses on how sex leads to children.

 

Do you two want me to say? That, since we haven't clearly defined a plan for how to fight abortion after it becomes illegal, I should give up the fight?

 

I'm going to be blunt here- I understand what you are hinting at- those of us who have become obsessed with abortion are nothing more than pawns of the Religious Right who really don't want abortion to be illegal so that they can continue to have our lockstep value votes. It's all been said and inferred before. Some of us do realize that there would be illegal abortion still. Yes, there are some of us who would combat infant murder after it became illegal.

I believe a phrase the gun crowd uses freqently is "Enforce the laws already on the books" instead of passing new ones. Since there was already a law on the books in Illinois, I find it curious that you choose to ignore that fact in your criticism of Obama over this issue.

 

Even McCain and Palin haven't gone so far as to claim that Obama supports infanticide. At least as far as I know.

I'm saying I doubt he knew there was a law on the books already, then claimed later that's why he voted that way.