Convince Me

[ladiesbballcoach]

No, I just disagree with your premise. I think being a Christian (follower of Jesus) is much more about following Jesus than believing the right theological dictates that are set up by someone proclaiming to KNOW THE TRUTH.

 

I don't claim to know all the truth, what I do know is that if the Gooch is searching and he finds a place that leads him to a better understanding of God and God's love then that is what really matters.

 

If that is in a mosque or a synagogue or on the Hour of Power what does it matter as long as the One Who is Love is shown and that Love is shown to others.

 

It matters if what Jesus claims is accurate. That He is the ONLY way.

 

And be careful on the claims of following Jesus because Jesus showed a lot more characteristics than you like to discuss. For example, am I to drive people that are doing wrong in the church out of the church with whips LIKE JESUS DID!!!!!! to the moneychangers???

 

Is that the complete picture of Jesus that you want me to follow?

[ladiesbballcoach]

 

What is your definition of divine?

 

Still waiting on this so I know what you mean when you say Jesus was not divine. I don't want to assume you mean one thing when you don't.

[acemona]

Still waiting on this so I know what you mean when you say Jesus was not divine. I don't want to assume you mean one thing when you don't.

 

The age old question is "Was Jesus fully God or fully man?" I don't think anyone ever asks if He was a demi or semi God.

 

I don't think that Jesus was full God. If He was then He really doesn't know what it is like to be tempted or to live the life of a human, because He was never human. If Jesus understood that he was fully God, then the cross means nothing because there was no real suffering and he knew that he would raise up in three days. As a result, all he would have been doing is play acting to show us what we were supposed to do instead of actually doing it.

 

Now, I could certainly be wrong, as could you in your response to me, but this is where my faith has carried me to this point. If I am wrong, am I going to hell? Again I think not b/c the God that I have come to know through Jesus knows that I am only human and cannot know things fully. But again, I could be wrong - good thing the God I know loves me unconditionally.

[thegooch]

I would like to here was the Catholic belief is all about.

Is there anyone on BGP who isnt some form of Christian?

[acemona]

It matters if what Jesus claims is accurate. That He is the ONLY way.

 

And be careful on the claims of following Jesus because Jesus showed a lot more characteristics than you like to discuss. For example, am I to drive people that are doing wrong in the church out of the church with whips LIKE JESUS DID!!!!!! to the moneychangers???

 

Is that the complete picture of Jesus that you want me to follow?

 

I think we need to see the full picture. But I also believe that we don't need to push all of the stories too far.

 

If we push them to their literal understanding every time, I leave you again with matthew 25:36-41 (I think) which states it is not about what you believe, but how you treat others.

[thegooch]

The age old question is "Was Jesus fully God or fully man?" I don't think anyone ever asks if He was a demi or semi God.

 

I don't think that Jesus was full God. If He was then He really doesn't know what it is like to be tempted or to live the life of a human, because He was never human. If Jesus understood that he was fully God, then the cross means nothing because there was no real suffering and he knew that he would raise up in three days. As a result, all he would have been doing is play acting to show us what we were supposed to do instead of actually doing it.

 

Now, I could certainly be wrong, as could you in your response to me, but this is where my faith has carried me to this point. If I am wrong, am I going to hell? Again I think not b/c the God that I have come to know through Jesus knows that I am only human and cannot know things fully. But again, I could be wrong - good thing the God I know loves me unconditionally.

 

When the Canon was being assembled there were basically two stacks: Jesus The Man, and Jesus divine.

[acemona]

When the Canon was being assembled there were basically two stacks: Jesus The Man, and Jesus divine.

 

Gooch,

 

Here is where my faith journey has brought me, and where my pastor and Sunday class have taken me . . .

 

I don't have to be RIGHT about everything. I can struggle with questions and I can change my mind based on new experiences and new understandings. If I was not continually growing - EMERGING is the word we like to use - then I would have known everything many years ago and would have stopped studying the life of Christ.

 

When I bring questions to class or to my preacher we don't automatically go to some scripture and say this is the only answer. We talk about what we know and understand about God and Jesus based on our experiences and our study of the scripture. We may all come to several different conclusions/answers to that question and that is okay because we are still searching and don't claim to KNOW all. A year later, I may have a better understanding of this question based on more experiences and more study and then reach a new set of conclusions and that is okay . . . it is all about growing.

 

Our guiding principal is that God loves us just as we are, and wants good for us and wants us to love others - unconditionally. That love must be manifest in action. By loving we will take of our neighbors, and we will welcome them just as they are, with all of their questions - which we will try to answer together as we grow in love.

[Hearsay]

Gooch,

 

Here is where my faith journey has brought me, and where my pastor and Sunday class have taken me . . .

 

I don't have to be RIGHT about everything. I can struggle with questions and I can change my mind based on new experiences and new understandings. If I was not continually growing - EMERGING is the word we like to use - then I would have known everything many years ago and would have stopped studying the life of Christ.

 

When I bring questions to class or to my preacher we don't automatically go to some scripture and say this is the only answer. We talk about what we know and understand about God and Jesus based on our experiences and our study of the scripture. We may all come to several different conclusions/answers to that question and that is okay because we are still searching and don't claim to KNOW all. A year later, I may have a better understanding of this question based on more experiences and more study and then reach a new set of conclusions and that is okay . . . it is all about growing.

 

Our guiding principal is that God loves us just as we are, and wants good for us and wants us to love others - unconditionally. That love must be manifest in action. By loving we will take of our neighbors, and we will welcome them just as they are, with all of their questions - which we will try to answer together as we grow in love.

 

Well, then we really didn't need Jesus. We could just follow the teachings of Ghandi, or Mother Theresa, or Fred Rogers, or the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. Everyone will get along. Come on in everyone, the water's fine. Everyone lives forever, hooray!

 

Gooch, it doesn't work this way.

 

acemona, I am being flippant based upon the old saying (by who?) that all evil needs to triumph is for good men to say nothing.

[Alabama Larry]

John 1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

 

Through him all things were made, without him nothing was made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

 

John 10:28/30 I give them eternal life and they shall never perish, no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my hand I and the Father are one.

 

John 14:9 Anyone who has seen me, has seen the Father.

 

Ace, I love to use scripture. Jesus is devine...Jesus is God.

[acemona]

John 1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

 

Through him all things were made, without him nothing was made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

 

John 10:28/30 I give them eternal life and they shall never perish, no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my hand I and the Father are one.

 

John 14:9 Anyone who has seen me, has seen the Father.

 

Ace, I love to use scripture. Jesus is devine...Jesus is God.

 

As I said earlier, there are those who can quote scripture that shows the humanity of Jesus. "why do you call me good, there is only one that is good and that is the father in heaven." Do you just ignore this scripture?

[Alabama Larry]

Ace, nope...Jesus in three forms its called the Trinity ( Not football) the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. You keep studying and asking questions.

 

OLD, thanks for your nice comments. May the force (Saban ) be with you.

[acemona]

Well, then we really didn't need Jesus. We could just follow the teachings of Ghandi, or Mother Theresa, or Fred Rogers, or the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. Everyone will get along. Come on in everyone, the water's fine. Everyone lives forever, hooray!

 

Gooch, it doesn't work this way.

 

acemona, I am being flippant based upon the old saying (by who?) that all evil needs to triumph is for good men to say nothing.

 

No where did I say that we don't need Jesus. I believe he is the perfect incarnation of God, uniquely chosen for a unique purpose. I believe he is the perfect Way to God but that he can accomodate himself to those who have not experienced the Word as we know it.

 

But I don't believe that wholeness of his life is summed up as "he is the way to heaven." I think he is the way to Wholeness in Life and that he is the way to bring God's kingdome on earth. My salvation is more than fire insurance, it is a relationship with God/Jesus that manifests itself in my relationship with God's creation. When I allow another human being to go hungry (regardless of the cause) I hurt that relationship. When I allow another human being to have their access to good health management limited (for whatever reason) I hurt my relationship with Jesus. When I allow another human being to suffer in poverty I hurt Jesus.

 

However, I know that my knowledge of Jesus/God is limited, like seeing through a glass dimly. I do not claim to know how God reaches the aboriginy of Asian submerged in Buddhism, but I know that God does. And until I understand how Jesus accomodates himself to those people I will not sit in judgment of them. I will talk about my faith journey and listen to theirs and hope that we both grow closer to God through our discussion.

 

BTW, surely you are not suggesting that I have said nothing on BGP regarding my faith journey. I simply have said something that is different than you - it does not mean that I am silent or that I do not hold convictions. It is just that my convictions, based on my relationship are different than yours. It appears your (the general yours) is based on conviction, conversion and the after-life. My conviction is based on how I should live my life to bring comfort, joy and justice to those around me.

[acemona]

For the record if we followed the teachings for Fred Rogers, the world would be a much better place.

[Alabama Larry]

Fred can't save your soul. Jesus has prepared a house (mansion) for you. A nice guy will not find this home based on his good works. If Fred did not accept Jesus as a believer he is in the same place as Hitler.

[acemona]

Fred can't save your soul. Jesus has prepared a house (mansion) for you. A nice guy will not find this home based on his good works. If Fred did not accept Jesus as a believer he is in the same place as Hitler.

 

Because God is viscious, arbitrary and vengeful and God will send somebody to everlasting torment for a misunderstanding that took place over a 60 year period. That certainly seems fair and just. Is God not fair and just?

 

AL how do you explain away, because I know you will but I just want to hear it, Matthew 25:31-46. There is no mention of believing anything only going to heaven based on how you treat the least of these.

 

For the record Mr. Rogers was a war veteran (special ops I think) who became either a presbyterian or methodist minister and anti-war.