Anyone remember Dave Kingman? A LOT of similarities to Dunn and Kingman never led any of his teams to the Series.

 

Adam Dunn:

Similar Batters through Age 26:

1. Darryl Strawberry

2. Jose Canseco

3. Reggie Jackson (HOF)

4. Troy Glaus

 

Most Similar by Age:

1. Darryl Strawberry

2. Pete Incaviglia

3. Reggie Jackson (HOF)

 

Courtesy of Baseball-Reference.com.

 

If he never played another game, his stats would most resemble Ron Kittle, however, God willing, he has a few more years in him.

Bet you are tired of answering the Kingman/Dunn posts?

 

Ya' think? Talk about looking at about this much of a story and just guessing at the rest. Officially called snapshot judgments. They are rarely right.

You want to compare someone to Kingman? How about Greg Vaughn (who, by the way, hit .245 here in 1999 and everyone LOVED him) and Frank Howard.

How about Greg Vaughn (who, by the way, hit .245 here in 1999 and everyone LOVED him) and Frank Howard.

 

 

 

In Vaughn's defense, he did hit .311 with runners in scoring position that year.

In Vaughn's defense, he did hit .311 with runners in scoring position that year.

 

Which about 1/10th of the fan base would know. The difference between the two, IMHO, in terms of the casual fan's perception was that Dunn appears to be having fun and be laid back and Vaughn was considered an intense competitor and an enforcer. That is why he was loved, not the unknown numbers with RISP.

Griffey is the hottest Red right now. No need to trade him. His bat is more important than some think. Narron made a great decision by moving Griffey to right.

 

If the Reds are looking to free up some money for players, Milton is who they need to get rid of. The Reds problems aren't in their offense, it's their pitching.

 

But BACK TO THE THREAD TITLE...yes Griffey is playing extremely well right now.

So then aren't you basically saying that - because other teams wouldn't want to give us much due to his age and contract - the REDS are themselves overpaying for Griffey?

 

Yes, had he not had the injury issues over the past 6 years you are probably right. But the bottom line is that he DID have the injury issues and forced the Reds to greatly overpay for a part-time player. The trade for Jr. just never worked out for the Reds.

 

So the time is now to thank Jr. for his efforts and let him move on and maybe even finish his career on a Series contender. The Reds need the money to invest in younger players and pitching . Spending $12.5M on an oft-injured, nearing-the-end-of-his-career player would be sentimental, but since we don't have the Yankees budget we have to make some hard decisions or this team will continue to stagnate year after year. Griffey is no longer someone you can build a team around.

 

I don't think he is being over paid for the way he is playing or the way he has played when not injured. Luck plays a big part in baseball and Jr and the Reds have had very little.

 

As far as trading him or unloading his salary, my thoughts are ...

 

1. Who is out there that the Reds could get that would help us more than what Jr. is currently producing.

2. The Reds have an inate ability to trade for players that quickly disappear (exception being Bronson...so far).

3. They do not have a good track record of getting good talent from other teams. We always seem to come on the loosing end. That said I do not want to loose Jr. for a couple of mediocre pitchers that will mowing yards in a couple of years.

Griffey is the hottest Red right now. No need to trade him.

 

If you're a Griffey fan first and foremost, I would agree. If you're a Reds fan who wants to see some pitching brought in and for the Reds to actually get better.....

 

As far as trading him or unloading his salary, my thoughts are ...

 

1. Who is out there that the Reds could get that would help us more than what Jr. is currently producing.

.

 

JD - the above is absolutely the wrong way to look at the Griffey decision.

Agree...you have to look ahead.

Teams that want to trade for Griffey will give up prospects.

I wouldn't mind getting a legit catching prospect for Griffey and some pitching or at least a serviceable arm.

Griffey is a Hall of Famer. Period. Nothing else to be said about it.

JD - the above is absolutely the wrong way to look at the Griffey decision.

I respect your opinion, but do not agree with you. I don't think trading Jr. for prospects that may help in a few years is that good of a deal. Of course you probably agreed with the trades of Foster and Perez. Did you also think Dick Wagner was correct in asking Bench to go to the Cards in the 70's, so the Red's could get some prospects to help the team?

I respect your opinion, but do not agree with you. I don't think trading Jr. for prospects that may help in a few years is that good of a deal. Of course you probably agreed with the trades of Foster and Perez. Did you also think Dick Wagner was correct in asking Bench to go to the Cards in the 70's, so the Red's could get some prospects to help the team?

 

Wow, you respect my opinion and yet you associate me now with Dick Wagner? Tough crowd.

 

My point in regards to trading Griffey has not changed in two years: Anything you get in return is a bonus. The WIN in the trade is the freed up cash you can now use on pitching that will help you over the next couple of years.

If you're a Griffey fan first and foremost, I would agree. If you're a Reds fan who wants to see some pitching brought in and for the Reds to actually get better.....

Here is the problem I have with this assumption. The idea of prospects and catching lightning in a bottle for a season or two does not usually translate in winning consistently, year after year. IMO, you have to have someone in the lineup like a JR and 2 someones in the starting rotation like a JR but a pitcher to win consistently.

 

And winning consistently is what I would like to see the Reds do.

I respect your opinion, but do not agree with you. I don't think trading Jr. for prospects that may help in a few years is that good of a deal. Of course you probably agreed with the trades of Foster and Perez. Did you also think Dick Wagner was correct in asking Bench to go to the Cards in the 70's, so the Red's could get some prospects to help the team?

 

Actually trading someone like Jr. or other aging veterans is exactly what the Reds need. You're comparing it to what Dick Wagner did but how about the Marlins dismantling their team full of aging and/or high priced free agents in 1998 after winning the World Series. Sure they were really bad for a year or two but if they wouldn't have done that do you think they could have won the Series AGAIN in 2003. The fact is this roster is horrible, keeping the veterans until the end of their contracts or careers might get the Reds a few more wins along the way but when you're talking about a team that will be lucky to win 70 games who cares if the trades mean that they win 60. If they try to build their team through their current farm system Jr. and the rest will be long retired before they have a chance to compete again. The fans need to realize this and deal with the fact that if they want a better product on the field it's going to take a few years and the best way to do it is to try and get some prospects to go along with Homer Bailey and some of the youngsters in the Minors right now, not by trying to squeeze 80 wins out of the current roster while praying that the Brewers finish with 79.

Here is the problem I have with this assumption. The idea of prospects and catching lightning in a bottle for a season or two does not usually translate in winning consistently, year after year. IMO, you have to have someone in the lineup like a JR and 2 someones in the starting rotation like a JR but a pitcher to win consistently.

 

And winning consistently is what I would like to see the Reds do.

 

 

I apologize but I'm not following what you're saying. JR is in the lineup and we're in last place despite him having a strong start.

 

In an ideal (see Yanks/BOSOX) world, we could have an aging $12M guy AND 4 strong/expensive pitchers. We do not live in that world. We're going nowhere today, have gone nowhere since Junior has been here, and without stronger pitching will be going nowhere while Junior continues to age.

 

I vote we a)realize our contstraints and b)adjust accordingly.