Is it time for Kentucky to revisit restrictions on June Football?

[WKY_Football]

This is a much talked about topic. Figured why not bring it on the forum and get more opinions. 

Right now in June, (late May), Basketball can play as many games as they want. 

Meanwhile, football can only lift and workout in June but nothing organized. (Every practice is organized but I digress)

If you look to neighboring states Tennessee is full throttle on football in June. 

The KHSAA saying that the state “gives” football July is one of the biggest misconceptions out there. Football “has” to have July because the season starts in August. Couple that with the refusal to adjust dead period dates to a Sunday-Sunday format and this year in July teams really get around 7-8 days to acclimate and crunch 7v7 work in before they have to shift their focus to installing and getting real football reps in the preparation of the season. 

This is something that I believe truly holds Kentucky back from developing football more in the state. Football isn’t the reason kids don’t get time off. Basketball and baseball go year round basically yet football is the only one constantly under the microscope in KY. 

From my understanding the June rule hasn’t been revisited since before 2010. Look at all the new blood and coaching changes each program has had since then. 

It’s time to revisit June football restrictions in our state. June is the perfect month for heat acclimation with helmets and to install your base offense and defense (which most schools do anyways) 

[Tigerpride94]

33 minutes ago, WKY_Football said:

This is a much talked about topic. Figured why not bring it on the forum and get more opinions. 

Right now in June, (late May), Basketball can play as many games as they want. 

Meanwhile, football can only lift and workout in June but nothing organized. (Every practice is organized but I digress)

If you look to neighboring states Tennessee is full throttle on football in June. 

The KHSAA saying that the state “gives” football July is one of the biggest misconceptions out there. Football “has” to have July because the season starts in August. Couple that with the refusal to adjust dead period dates to a Sunday-Sunday format and this year in July teams really get around 7-8 days to acclimate and crunch 7v7 work in before they have to shift their focus to installing and getting real football reps in the preparation of the season. 

This is something that I believe truly holds Kentucky back from developing football more in the state. Football isn’t the reason kids don’t get time off. Basketball and baseball go year round basically yet football is the only one constantly under the microscope in KY. 

From my understanding the June rule hasn’t been revisited since before 2010. Look at all the new blood and coaching changes each program has had since then. 

It’s time to revisit June football restrictions in our state. June is the perfect month for heat acclimation with helmets and to install your base offense and defense (which most schools do anyways) 

I think they should do away with spring practice and allow June. Seems like good trade off plus would help spring sports like track that have to navigate around the football players that do both sports.

[WKY_Football]

11 minutes ago, Tigerpride94 said:

I think they should do away with spring practice and allow June. Seems like good trade off plus would help spring sports like track that have to navigate around the football players that do both sports.

I can definitely get behind that. Without being allowed to scrimmage another team in the spring a lot of KHSAA schools, especially the small schools, would probably love to have June instead of spring. 
 

I even like taking it a step further and allowing EACH school to choose what they want. If you get spring practice then you don’t get June 7v7. If you get June 7v7 then you don’t get spring practice. 

[futurecoach]

Apparently, the Kentucky Football Coaches Association and Kentucky Basketball Coaches Association agreed to this arrangement back in 2008. At the time, the understanding was pretty straightforward: basketball would have June for its summer games, and football would have July for 7-on-7 competition. That made sense then, and most football programs accepted that they might not have all of their basketball players available in June. However, football teams were still able to practice together, wear helmets, and continue developing as a team in June.

The issue that has led many football coaches to want to revisit this agreement stems from last year when Commissioner Tackett stated that football teams were not allowed to practice in helmets or conduct organized football activities in June, claiming that rule had been in place since 2008. The problem is that virtually every football program in the state had been practicing in helmets and conducting organized team activities during June for years. In fact, you can find bylaws from as recently as 2016 that specifically allowed helmets during June workouts. So it’s weird that he said it’s been that way since 2008 with helmets not being allowed, yet the bylaws for most of the years said helmets were allowed in June.

That has created a lot of confusion within the football community. If this rule truly existed since 2008, why did the bylaws appear to allow helmets for so many years, and why wasn’t it enforced until recently? The bylaw language supporting the current interpretation didn’t change until a couple of years ago, which is why many football coaches now want the issue revisited.

I know some people point to football’s “spring ball” period, but even then, football programs rarely have all of their athletes because many are participating in spring sports. It seems odd that basketball, whose season ends in March and doesn’t play meaningful games again until late November, can bring all of its players back together for summer competition in June before football ever gets a chance to have its full roster together.

Quite honestly, the easiest solution may be to go back to what nearly every football program in Kentucky was already doing until last year. Let basketball have June for summer games, but allow football teams to conduct organized practices in helmets for players who are not participating in basketball. That’s essentially how programs operated for years, and the vast majority of both football and basketball coaches seemed perfectly fine with it. Or even put a limit on it for June like with spring ball. Allow football programs up to two weeks in June before dead period where they can do organized practices in helmets.

[Builder1214]

Despite what the KHSAA commissioner wants to say, this rule changed sometime between the 2015(only old bylaw book I could find) and 2024 limitation of seasons of the KHSAA bylaws. Part C of the rule was deleted and part H of the rule was added. Rule C allowed for football specific, non-contact activities during June, so deleting C and adding H is what eliminated all football activity in June. With this change, any team that does any coach led or organized football drills in June is out of compliance with the limitation of seasons. The June basketball/July football rule came into effect sometime around 2008. 

Here is the Bylaw for football limitation of seasons from 2015:

(4) From June 1 through June 24:
a. Schools shall not issue football equipment included in NFHS Rule 1-5 other than the helmet, with the exception of an all-star game or individual camp as detailed;
b. Schools shall not organize or participate in any football activities that allow players to be in football gear included in NFHS Rule 1-5 other than the helmet, even if contact does not occur;
c. Activity during this period shall not include contact (Level 3-”Thud” or Level 4-”Live Action”);
d. No session shall be held where attendance is taken or where attendance is implicitly or explicitly required;
e. The KHSAA catastrophic insurance provided by the Association is not in effect during this period; and
f. Heat index monitoring guidelines shall be complied with during any activity.

Here is the Bylaw for football limitation of seasons from 2024:

(7) From June 1 through June 24:

a. Schools shall not issue football equipment included in NFHS Rule 1-5, except an all-star game or individual camp as detailed;

b. Schools shall not organize or participate in any football activities that allow players to be in football gear included in NFHS Rule 1-5, even if contact does not occur;

c. No session shall be held where attendance is taken;

d. No session shall be held where attendance is implicitly or explicitly required;

e. No session shall be held where other schools or organized teams are present and involved in any activity;

f. The KHSAA catastrophic insurance provided by the Association is not in effect during this period; g. Heat index monitoring guidelines shall be complied with during any activity; and

h. Activity during this period shall not include Level 1, Level 2, Level 3, Level 4 or Level 5;

 

To better understand the levels of activity from C and H. Here is the definition:

SEC. 6) SPORTS SPECIFIC LIMITATIONS- FOOTBALL- BOYS/COED a) Organized practice shall be defined and structured in football as follows: (1) Football drill work and practice activity shall be defined in the following five categories:

a. “Level 0” or “air” means that players run a drill unopposed without contact;

b. “Level 1” or “bags” means that a drill is run against a bag or another soft contact surface;

c. “Level 2” or “control” means that a drill is run at an assigned speed until the moment of contact; One (1) player is predetermined the winner by the coach; Contact remains above the waist; and Players stay on their feet.

d. “Level 3” or “Control to Ground” means that a drill is run at an assigned non-competitive speed or with players pre-engaged, there is a pre-determined winner, players are allowed to take their opponent to the ground in a controlled manner.

e. “Level 4” or “thud” means that a drill is run at a Bylaws 2024-2025 KHSAA HANDBOOK BYLAWS - 19 competitive speed through the moment of contact; there is no predetermined winner; contact is above the waist; players stay on their feet, and a quick whistle ends the drill; and

f. “Level 5” or “live action” means that a drill is run at a competitive speed in game-like conditions.

Here is the limitation of seasons for basketball from 2024-2025. Notice there is no definition for the type of basketball activities restricted during July, similar to section H in the football limitation of seasons. 

SEC. 3) SPORTS SPECIFIC LIMITATIONS- BASKETBALL- BOYS/COED

a) Following the opening day of school, there shall be no organized basketball practice before October 15. b) Before the opening game of regular season play, a basketball team may have only two (2) scrimmages or practice games with players other than members of the squad.

c) The first basketball game shall not take place before the Monday twelve weeks before the designated week of the district tournament per the official published corresponding date calendar.

d) The season shall consist of a maximum of thirty (30) games to be played before the beginning of KHSAA state championship competition (district).

e) The opportunity to participate in regular season contests shall end at all levels of play (grades 9-12) on the second day preceding the first KHSAA Tournament (district, region or state), with the exception that the varsity team may practice and play through its elimination from KHSAA-sanctioned tournament play. Following the elimination, there shall be no further practice or play during the remainder of the academic school year

Also, notice the verbage for the June/July contradicts the bylaw 23 limitation of seasons for football. If you cannot do a level 1 or level 2 activity, you cannot do skill development in football.

SEC. 2) RESTRICTIONS ON FOOTBALL AND BOYS’ BASKETBALL

a) Students shall not participate in any organized team activity or organized or semi-organized team competition in football in any format between the earlier of the last day of school and June 1, through the day before the start of the dead period. During this period, students may participate in activities such as weight training, skill development, individual camps (with per team limits on participation) and accepted open gym or field activities where no inter-school competition is involved.

b) Students shall not participate in any organized team activity or organized or semi-organized team competition in Boys’ basketball between the end of the dead period and July 31. During this period, students may participate in activities such as weight training, skill development, individual camps (with per team limits on participation) and accepted open gym/field activities where no inter-school competition is involved.

To sum this up, there is no reason why football teams should not be permitted to have football specific drills and skill work during the month of June. The June/July rule as stated does not limit football skill work. The recent changes to the football limitation of seasons led to the restrictions. 

[WKY_Football]

3 hours ago, futurecoach said:

Apparently, the Kentucky Football Coaches Association and Kentucky Basketball Coaches Association agreed to this arrangement back in 2008. At the time, the understanding was pretty straightforward: basketball would have June for its summer games, and football would have July for 7-on-7 competition. That made sense then, and most football programs accepted that they might not have all of their basketball players available in June. However, football teams were still able to practice together, wear helmets, and continue developing as a team in June.

The issue that has led many football coaches to want to revisit this agreement stems from last year when Commissioner Tackett stated that football teams were not allowed to practice in helmets or conduct organized football activities in June, claiming that rule had been in place since 2008. The problem is that virtually every football program in the state had been practicing in helmets and conducting organized team activities during June for years. In fact, you can find bylaws from as recently as 2016 that specifically allowed helmets during June workouts. So it’s weird that he said it’s been that way since 2008 with helmets not being allowed, yet the bylaws for most of the years said helmets were allowed in June.

That has created a lot of confusion within the football community. If this rule truly existed since 2008, why did the bylaws appear to allow helmets for so many years, and why wasn’t it enforced until recently? The bylaw language supporting the current interpretation didn’t change until a couple of years ago, which is why many football coaches now want the issue revisited.

I know some people point to football’s “spring ball” period, but even then, football programs rarely have all of their athletes because many are participating in spring sports. It seems odd that basketball, whose season ends in March and doesn’t play meaningful games again until late November, can bring all of its players back together for summer competition in June before football ever gets a chance to have its full roster together.

Quite honestly, the easiest solution may be to go back to what nearly every football program in Kentucky was already doing until last year. Let basketball have June for summer games, but allow football teams to conduct organized practices in helmets for players who are not participating in basketball. That’s essentially how programs operated for years, and the vast majority of both football and basketball coaches seemed perfectly fine with it. Or even put a limit on it for June like with spring ball. Allow football programs up to two weeks in June before dead period where they can do organized practices in helmets.

Agreed 100%. Football doesn’t “get” July. It HAS to have July because football plays in August. 
 

Many football teams do not have all of their guys until July. To me it’s pretty obvious that the KHSAA wants to protect summer basketball and really do not care what feelings it hurts with the football coaches. 
 

Basketball NEVER stops. And guess what? In July AAU season picks back up again after a June pause. Something definitely needs to change. Things are way different than they were when this “agreement” was first reached. 

[BlueBloodedColonel]

Sports are all year around nowadays it seems. Kids are always prepping, at different gyms, etc. It's time for the KHSAA to loosen up. 

[DearToday]

12 hours ago, WKY_Football said:

Agreed 100%. Football doesn’t “get” July. It HAS to have July because football plays in August. 
 

Many football teams do not have all of their guys until July. To me it’s pretty obvious that the KHSAA wants to protect summer basketball and really do not care what feelings it hurts with the football coaches. 
 

Basketball NEVER stops. And guess what? In July AAU season picks back up again after a June pause. Something definitely needs to change. Things are way different than they were when this “agreement” was first reached. 

PREACH. 
And the people that were in charge of football decisions agreed to it forever ago because they didn’t wanna have to put in that extra work either in June. Time has changed and we should change with the times. They should vote on it again and allow 7v7 work in June. In a dream world they’d allow teams a scrimmage at the end of spring ball too if it was during a certain time frame. Spring ball is closest thing to summer ball like basketball I’d think. 

[TheBallCoach]

Biggest issue I’ve had coaching in June is not knowing who is who. I am a fan of the usage of helmets, one for my own selfish reasons to differentiate between players but also acclimating to the heat on their perspective. Personally, I don’t think it’s too big of an issue whether they open it up to discuss or not. After dead period school and football season are on the horizon, how it’s been for a long time and I don’t mind it.

[AirRaidCoach]

I truly wonder if this has something to do with the cost of insurance. 
 

Which if that’s the case then say so, but to just pretend like this rule was in place for years is crazy. More so, who voted on these changes. Why weren’t the stake holders given a chance to speak on it. In states where Football matters, they are doing 7v7 in June and July becomes season prep. 

[ProblemChild]

A kid is a basketball/football player. It's June. The basketball team has a summer team camp and the football team wants to install some offense. The basketball coach wants the player to be there. The football coach wants the player to be there. What KHSAA has done is eliminate this issue which can cause friction between the basketball/football coaches and coach/player. It's easy. In June, the kid should prioritize basketball without having to worry about missing actual practice. In July, he prioritizes football without having to worry about consequences. Allowing actual football practices in June would bring back all these issues. At a great school, the AD would step in and make sure schedules do not conflict between the two, and when they do, basketball comes first in June, football in July. Kudos to KHSAA for what they have done to prevent these issues, or at least limit them. Kids can be stretched too thin and that's why we stop seeing multisport athletes. 

[zoneblitz24]

The KHSAA will do whatever to protect basketball in this state for some reason.  It is the only sport that gets to have 2 seasons.  A basketball team will play 30 games from November to March and then turn around and play another 30 from May to June without touching a weight and somehow we think that's good on kids bodies. 

[WKY_Football]

3 hours ago, ProblemChild said:

A kid is a basketball/football player. It's June. The basketball team has a summer team camp and the football team wants to install some offense. The basketball coach wants the player to be there. The football coach wants the player to be there. What KHSAA has done is eliminate this issue which can cause friction between the basketball/football coaches and coach/player. It's easy. In June, the kid should prioritize basketball without having to worry about missing actual practice. In July, he prioritizes football without having to worry about consequences. Allowing actual football practices in June would bring back all these issues. At a great school, the AD would step in and make sure schedules do not conflict between the two, and when they do, basketball comes first in June, football in July. Kudos to KHSAA for what they have done to prevent these issues, or at least limit them. Kids can be stretched too thin and that's why we stop seeing multisport athletes. 

Football is not the reason kids are stretched too thin. Check out some of these summer basketball schedules and practices. Heck you got kids not even enrolled in schools playing summer basketball for that school. Now tell me how that works? 
 

Then tell me anything football does in June or July resembles that. 
 

The thing that could solve a lot of these problems as well is run dead period from a Sunday-Sunday and not keep the same dates every year. Be flexible not rigid on things. 

[theguru]

4. No recruiting comments or allegations of KHSAA rules violations by any school, coach, player or booster are allowed. No comments about where any player lives, has lived, or where they are from in a recruiting context. This is not the place to report KHSAA violations. Feel free to contact Kentucky High School Athletic Association | KHSAA – Student-athletes of Today, Leaders of Tomorrow to report such violations, but do not discuss violations here.

[futurecoach]

12 hours ago, ProblemChild said:

A kid is a basketball/football player. It's June. The basketball team has a summer team camp and the football team wants to install some offense. The basketball coach wants the player to be there. The football coach wants the player to be there. What KHSAA has done is eliminate this issue which can cause friction between the basketball/football coaches and coach/player. It's easy. In June, the kid should prioritize basketball without having to worry about missing actual practice. In July, he prioritizes football without having to worry about consequences. Allowing actual football practices in June would bring back all these issues. At a great school, the AD would step in and make sure schedules do not conflict between the two, and when they do, basketball comes first in June, football in July. Kudos to KHSAA for what they have done to prevent these issues, or at least limit them. Kids can be stretched too thin and that's why we stop seeing multisport athletes. 

What you are saying makes sense in regards to getting rid of 7 on 7 in June for football. Which is what happened in 2008 because there were a lot of issues between football coaches and bball coaches wanting players, and why that Change was made.

Since 2008 bball has had summer games and basically every football program in the state had been doing practices in helmets in June. Which for the most part there really wasn’t many issues between basketball and football. As most football programs excepted they may not have some basketball kids in June, but at least still got to work with the rest of the kids who didn’t play basketball. Quite honestly the overall system seemed to be working well for the majority of schools across the state. So there really wasn’t a reason for all of a sudden this “rule change” last year, saying it’s been that way since 2008. When even in the KHSAA bylaws it wasn’t saying that until about two years ago. 

It’s quite simple, just go back to letting things operate like they had been since 2008 up until last year when Tackett sent out a message essentially changing  how schools have operated.