Seems all this could be easily settled by just going back to 4 classes!

1 minute ago, Falcon Pride said:

Seems all this could be easily settled by just going back to 4 classes!

I would like that with only 32 teams in 4A and 1A, and the rest divided evenly between 2A and 3A.

It seems to me that there taking all the good teams out of 2A into 3A. Same teams gonna win 3A that are winning 2A now. What does it matter? 

11 minutes ago, snakesnot_2000 said:

It seems to me that there taking all the good teams out of 2A into 3A. Same teams gonna win 3A that are winning 2A now. What does it matter? 

Action/reaction.  Other than CAL, I don't see how you could move anyone out of 3A at the current time which means 3A would be all about the current top powers in 2A and maybe Murray and Bell County.  Like I mentioned above, I think it would actually be tougher sledding for the majority of 3A schools. 

20 hours ago, theguru said:

Something else here, and I am serious about this, if the KHSAA comes up with a "Multiplier/Success Factor Index" to move teams between classes, that index should immediately replace the RPI for playoff seeding. 

Here in Tennessee the TSSAA tried the multiplier for Private Schools (1.5 I think) to determine their class. Finally they separated all Private schools into Division 2 with three classes (about 60 schools total).  Division 1 remained with six classes (about 300) of the Public schools. I realize Kentucky doesn’t have that many private schools, but IMO it gave the public schools, especially in the smaller classes, a better chance at making the finals. Of course, Alcoa (a 3A public school) won 10+ straight championships. They finally moved up to 4A in 2025 and won the championship again. My understanding is Alcoa moved up voluntarily. That program is not the normal program but obviously they are doing something right.  

We know that KHSAA is flawed.  Didn't they just prohibit schools from playing up a couple of years ago?  I am totally opposed to this multiplier plan; these are high school kids and in case no one noticed kids graduate every year.  Rather that do the multiplier stupidity go back to allowing the schools that desire to play up to do so; conversely schools should also be allowed to move down if they meet specified criteria so that they can be competitive at whatever level.

16 hours ago, Falcon Pride said:

Seems all this could be easily settled by just going back to 4 classes!

There were still plenty of blowouts and undeserving playoff teams in 4 classes. The issue isn’t classes, the issue is the divide between haves and have nots will continue to grow. 

17 hours ago, theguru said:

I don't like that at all:

Resources - Punish anyone successful.

Where they draw their students (in and/or outside of district lines) - The KHSAA rules are the same for all schools meaning all schools can draw students from wherever they please, some schools/school systems choose not to, but they could if they wanted to.  This would punish schools not breaking any rules in favor of schools wanting additional, restrictive rules. 

Free & Reduced lunch - Punish anyone successful x 2.

Enrollment of boys - This is how we do it, right?

West Virginia implemented a similar system. It ended up being more of a headache than it was worth. Too many ways to “adjust the scales”. 

21 hours ago, Calico Jack said:

I personally think the best way about it, as we've talked before, is to just completely do away with districts altogether + going back to the purely, hypothetical scenarios/changes I posted in November?

1- Two Classes, 6 Divisions

• Class A= Class A, AA, AAA
• Class AA= Class 4A, 5A, 6A
• Within those classes? Three divisions. Class A Div I, Class A Div II, Class A Div III + Class AA D1, Class AA D2, Class 2A D3
• Take the Top 16 (HSRatings, Updated RPI, @Tigerpride94, etc) in each of "Class A, Class AA, Class AAA", so 48 Total. Top 16? Class A D1. Middle 16? Class A D2. Bottom 16? Class A D3
• Same for Class AA D1, D2, D3

 

2- Full on Open Division. D1, D2, D3, D4, D5, D6

• Top 96 per rankings above.
• Top 16= D1, 17-32= D2, so on and so forth.

I don't know what it could hurt. Either. But Option 1, I think, would be the easier sell.   It'd be a shot in the arm I think, in many ways, because as soon as these new realignments come out? It sure as heck isn't rocket science to figure out which 1-6 per class are going to have a say in things.

 

Here is the 2025 Kentucky "Selection Sunday" bracket using your 96-team model.
This is based on the final 2025 RPI and composite rankings from Tigerpride94, HSRatings, and the KHSAA.
Class A (The Small School Super-Class: 1A, 2A, 3A)
Division I (Top 16)
This is the "Champions Bracket." All three 2025 State Champs (KCD, LCA, CAL) are here.
 * Christian Academy-Louisville (3A Champ)
 * Lexington Christian Academy (2A Champ)
 * Kentucky Country Day (1A Champ)
 * Owensboro Catholic (2A Runner-up)
 * Beechwood
 * Murray (3A Runner-up)
 * Raceland (1A Runner-up)
 * Mayfield
 * Belfry
 * Bell County
 * Lexington Catholic
 * Pikeville
 * Lloyd Memorial
 * Union County
 * Hart County
 * Central
Division II (Middle 16)
 * Campbellsville
 * Sayre
 * Glasgow
 * Adair County
 * Lawrence County
 * Rockcastle County
 * Russell
 * Middlesboro
 * East Carter
 * Garrard County
 * Hazard
 * Bardstown
 * Newport Central Catholic
 * Somerset
 * Green County
 * Holy Cross (Louisville)
Division III (Bottom 16)
 * Bethlehem
 * Danville
 * Paris
 * Williamsburg
 * Nicholas County
 * Bishop Brossart
 * Newport
 * Paintsville
 * Ludlow
 * Dayton
 * Pineville
 * Mercer County
 * Eminence
 * Lynn Camp
 * Fairview
 * Bracken County
Class AA (The Large School Super-Class: 4A, 5A, 6A)
Division I (Top 16)
The "Heavyweights." Imagine a bracket where Boyle County has to go through Trinity.
 * Trinity (6A Champ)
 * Boyle County (4A Champ)
 * Owensboro (5A Champ)
 * South Warren (6A Runner-up)
 * Pulaski County (5A Runner-up)
 * Franklin County (4A Runner-up)
 * St. Xavier
 * Ryle
 * Covington Catholic
 * Frederick Douglass
 * Highlands
 * DuPont Manual
 * Corbin
 * Johnson Central
 * Cooper
 * Woodford County
Division II (Middle 16)
 * Paducah Tilghman
 * Male
 * Atherton
 * Madison Central
 * Scott County
 * North Oldham
 * Ashland Blazer
 * Ballard
 * Bryan Station
 * South Oldham
 * Henderson County
 * Great Crossing
 * George Rogers Clark
 * Daviess County
 * Bullitt East
 * Logan County
Division III (Bottom 16)
 * Madisonville-North Hopkins
 * North Laurel
 * Bowling Green
 * Graves County
 * Tates Creek
 * Central Hardin
 * Simon Kenton
 * Conner
 * Dixie Heights
 * Apollo
 * Fairdale
 * Christian County
 * Greenup County
 * Barren County
 * New Hope
 * Collins
Division I: Round 1 Feature Matchups
If we use a standard #1 vs #16 seed format for the top tier:
 * Class A D1: #1 CAL vs. #16 Central (A classic Louisville rivalry reborn in the postseason).
 * Class A D1: #4 Owensboro Catholic vs. #13 Lloyd Memorial (High-flying offense vs. physical defense).
 * Class AA D1: #1 Trinity vs. #16 Woodford County (Woodford's rising program vs. the Gold Standard).
 * Class AA D1: #2 Boyle County vs. #15 Cooper (A massive test for the 4A powerhouse against a top-tier 5A/6A contender).
 

17 hours ago, theguru said:

I don't like that at all:

Resources - Punish anyone successful.

Where they draw their students (in and/or outside of district lines) - The KHSAA rules are the same for all schools meaning all schools can draw students from wherever they please, some schools/school systems choose not to, but they could if they wanted to.  This would punish schools not breaking any rules in favor of schools wanting additional, restrictive rules. 

Free & Reduced lunch - Punish anyone successful x 2.

Enrollment of boys - This is how we do it, right?

West Virginia Secondary School Activities Commission (WVSSAC) recently attempted a very similar model, which they called the Competitive Balance Formula.

While they eventually moved back toward a strictly enrollment-based system after significant legal turmoil in 2024, their "Competitive Balance" experiment mirrored almost every point in your proposal.

The WVSSAC "Competitive Balance" Model

From 2020 (starting with basketball) through the 2024 football season, West Virginia moved away from using only enrollment. Their formula weighted different factors to determine a school's final "score" for classification:

 * Enrollment (80% weight): This covered your "enrollment of boys" and general student population criteria.

 * Location (10% weight): This addressed your point about "where they draw students." It looked at a school’s proximity to a city with 10,000+ people, acknowledging that schools in urban centers have a larger talent pool and more "resources" (specialized training, larger coaching staffs) than isolated rural schools.

 * Socioeconomics (10% weight): This used a county-wide socioeconomic status score, which directly correlates to your "Free & Reduced lunch" criteria. The logic was that schools in wealthier areas often have better-funded booster clubs and private resources.

The 2024 Football Chaos

The model was highly controversial when applied to football. In August 2024, just weeks before the season began, a massive reclassification occurred:

 * The Appeal: 22 schools successfully argued that the formula was unfair. For example, some schools with high enrollment but extreme poverty or geographic isolation felt they shouldn't be forced to play the "powerhouses" in Class AAAA.

 * The Injunctions: This led to a series of lawsuits that actually postponed the state football playoffs in November 2024. Courts had to decide whether the WVSSAC could change classifications mid-season based on these "competitive balance" metrics.

 * The Result: The West Virginia Supreme Court eventually had to intervene to allow the playoffs to proceed.

Current Status (2025–2026)

Because of the legal "nightmare" caused by the multi-factor formula, the WVSSAC Board of Control voted unanimously in April 2025 to scrap the location and socioeconomic scores.

> Current System: They are moving to a four-class system (A, AA, AAA, AAAA) based exclusively on enrollment. However, they did keep one "resource" factor: they now allow a "modified enrollment" where they subtract a portion of students who receive "direct certification" (a proxy for Free & Reduced Lunch) from the total count to give poorer schools a slight break.

2 hours ago, Pi said:

There were still plenty of blowouts and undeserving playoff teams in 4 classes. The issue isn’t classes, the issue is the divide between haves and have nots will continue to grow. 

Blowouts will happen and the haves/have nots will be here until the end of time.

Can you imagine 3A with the following:

CAL, Boyle, CovCath, Highlands, Franklin, Owensboro, Corbin, a couple Louisville teams. All with an upgraded ranking/seeding system.

Sign me up for that!!!

1a 40 teams

2a 66 teams

3a 66 teams

4a 40 teams

 

3 hours ago, JustL00kin said:

 

West Virginia Secondary School Activities Commission (WVSSAC) recently attempted a very similar model, which they called the Competitive Balance Formula.

While they eventually moved back toward a strictly enrollment-based system after significant legal turmoil in 2024, their "Competitive Balance" experiment mirrored almost every point in your proposal.

The WVSSAC "Competitive Balance" Model

From 2020 (starting with basketball) through the 2024 football season, West Virginia moved away from using only enrollment. Their formula weighted different factors to determine a school's final "score" for classification:

 * Enrollment (80% weight): This covered your "enrollment of boys" and general student population criteria.

 * Location (10% weight): This addressed your point about "where they draw students." It looked at a school’s proximity to a city with 10,000+ people, acknowledging that schools in urban centers have a larger talent pool and more "resources" (specialized training, larger coaching staffs) than isolated rural schools.

 * Socioeconomics (10% weight): This used a county-wide socioeconomic status score, which directly correlates to your "Free & Reduced lunch" criteria. The logic was that schools in wealthier areas often have better-funded booster clubs and private resources.

The 2024 Football Chaos

The model was highly controversial when applied to football. In August 2024, just weeks before the season began, a massive reclassification occurred:

 * The Appeal: 22 schools successfully argued that the formula was unfair. For example, some schools with high enrollment but extreme poverty or geographic isolation felt they shouldn't be forced to play the "powerhouses" in Class AAAA.

 * The Injunctions: This led to a series of lawsuits that actually postponed the state football playoffs in November 2024. Courts had to decide whether the WVSSAC could change classifications mid-season based on these "competitive balance" metrics.

 * The Result: The West Virginia Supreme Court eventually had to intervene to allow the playoffs to proceed.

Current Status (2025–2026)

Because of the legal "nightmare" caused by the multi-factor formula, the WVSSAC Board of Control voted unanimously in April 2025 to scrap the location and socioeconomic scores.

> Current System: They are moving to a four-class system (A, AA, AAA, AAAA) based exclusively on enrollment. However, they did keep one "resource" factor: they now allow a "modified enrollment" where they subtract a portion of students who receive "direct certification" (a proxy for Free & Reduced Lunch) from the total count to give poorer schools a slight break.

This is great info. 

I don’t know if what I suggested earlier is the best approach or not. And, I change my mind often. 

But, the first airplane was not real safe either. Most all procedures, formulas, etc. can be improved. 

I do like the WV idea better than bumping schools up a class because they win a lot.  

 

Of course, most who are  at the top of the status quo would not support reform.  No brainer. 
 

I hope I don’t hurt anyone’s feelings from Lewis Co. because I love that place. Corky Prater is a great friend and excellent football coach.  That county is huge. It can take some of those kids almost an hour to get to practice. Economic resources are scarce. If KY were to have system that let them play in a classification against schools with similar obstacles, the powerhouses would be fine. 

11 minutes ago, ChiefSmoke said:

This is great info. 

I don’t know if what I suggested earlier is the best approach or not. And, I change my mind often. 

But, the first airplane was not real safe either. Most all procedures, formulas, etc. can be improved. 

I do like the WV idea better than bumping schools up a class because they win a lot.  

 

Of course, most who are  at the top of the status quo would not support reform.  No brainer. 
 

I hope I don’t hurt anyone’s feelings from Lewis Co. because I love that place. Corky Prater is a great friend and excellent football coach.  That county is huge. It can take some of those kids almost an hour to get to practice. Economic resources are scarce. If KY were to have system that let them play in a classification against schools with similar obstacles, the powerhouses would be fine. 

It sounds like you are describing some type of "Hardship Move Down Waiver" for some schools. How would you determine it, how many classes would you let them move down, should any school be allowed to move down to 1A, lots of potential issues. 

If we had a blank slate.. what would the best setup for 225 football programs 20ish private schools? Factors of isolation and EXTREME poverty especially in eastern and western ky… 3 metro areas. And many other factors, traditional powers in various classes, pointless week 1 playoff games. Impossible to really nail down I think. Sometimes I think the more we do the more we leave ourselves open to scrutiny. 

2 hours ago, AppalachianTactician said:

If we had a blank slate.. what would the best setup for 225 football programs 20ish private schools? Factors of isolation and EXTREME poverty especially in eastern and western ky… 3 metro areas. And many other factors, traditional powers in various classes, pointless week 1 playoff games. Impossible to really nail down I think. Sometimes I think the more we do the more we leave ourselves open to scrutiny. 

Just starting with the shape of the state, Kentucky is a tough to figure out when it comes to athletics and a good way to do it. But, doesn't mean we can't look for a better way.  I don't like the multiplier, but I appreciate that they are looking for ways to make it better for kids.