2 minutes ago, theguru said:

@Calico Jack let's assume The Commish put you in charge of what teams to move up.  What would your "equitable proposal" be?  I am looking for teams only here based on any criteria you see fit. 

My criteria would be if you finished in the top 2 in each of the last 5 years of your class based on HSRatings.com then you get moved up a class. If you get moved up and finish lower than top 10 can move back down. Most likely a team that good is not going to finish outside of top 10 of bigger class.

6 minutes ago, Tigerpride94 said:

My criteria would be if you finished in the top 2 in each of the last 5 years of your class based on HSRatings.com then you get moved up a class. If you get moved up and finish lower than top 10 can move back down. Most likely a team that good is not going to finish outside of top 10 of bigger class.

Would that move anyone up besides maybe CAL?

It's not the most practical but I would like to see it crunched down to 5 classes first and also more 5 or 6 team districts with the top 2 or 3 making it. 

51 minutes ago, theguru said:

Would that move anyone up besides maybe CAL?

Boyle County.

First, let me say this clearly: I’m "Success multiplier or Bust". 

A move from the archaic, outdated, antiquated ways of doing things? Absolutely

I understand the intent behind it. When the same programs keep showing up late in November and December, people naturally ask, “Who would this apply to?”

If we’re strictly answering that question—based on recent sustained success—you’re obviously talking about programs like Christian Academy–Louisville, Boyle County, Raceland, Beechwood, and Bowling Green—programs that have either won multiple state titles or played in multiple championship games over a short window.

Those are the names that would get flagged. No mystery there.

But here’s where I start to pause—not because those programs don’t win, but because the real question isn’t who’s winning… it’s why they’re winning.

And this is also where the success multiplier gets really tricky—especially once you hit 6A.

Because what exactly do you do with 6A programs?

There’s nowhere to move them. No higher class. No clean solution. So now you’ve built a system where the “penalty for success” applies unevenly depending on class size. That alone should make us slow down.

The only way a true success-based model works long-term is if you let it play out over time—cream rises to the top style. And if you do that, whether people want to admit it or not, you eventually end up with something that looks an awful lot like an Open Division… or what I laid out months ago as a Division 1 concept.

And honestly? That might not be a terrible idea—if it’s done intentionally and transparently.

But here’s why I’m still much more in favor of population density and demographic factors as the primary driver—similar to Florida’s Urban, Suburban, and Rural classifications.

Because Kentucky’s imbalance problem isn’t really about trophies.

It’s about environment.

Two schools can have the same enrollment and live in completely different realities:

• different population density

• different feeder systems

• different access to  participation

• different depth and margin for error

A rural program can be a good—well coached, disciplined, tough—and still not have the same ecosystem as a suburban or metro school. That doesn’t make one “better.” It makes them different.

And this isn’t some brand-new idea—we’re watching the same debate happen right now at the college level.

The Power Four vs Group of Five discussion is basically the same argument in a different uniform.

Programs like Western Kentucky Hilltoppers are good football programs. Anyone who knows the game understands that. They’re well coached. They develop players. They win games.

But they also operate in a different ecosystem—and they have zero structural path to the same ceiling. That doesn’t make them bad. It just means the system acknowledges reality.

High school football is no different.

Bad programs are still going to be bad—no matter what multiplier you use.
What we’re really talking about is how to classify good programs fairly without sending the message: “Congrats on doing everything right—now here’s your "punishment".”

3 minutes ago, Tigerpride94 said:

Boyle County.

I guess the computer would but the results on the field were not top two in 2024:

3 minutes ago, Calico Jack said:

If we’re strictly answering that question—based on recent sustained success—you’re obviously talking about programs like Christian Academy–Louisville, Boyle County, Raceland, Beechwood, and Bowling Green—programs that have either won multiple state titles or played in multiple championship games over a short window.

So you would move those five schools, any others?

I know we keep framing a "success factor" as “punishment,” but is it really?

Is it any more a punishment than Ohio County being expected to build a program while sharing a district/region with Bowling Green, Owensboro, and Madisonville-North Hopkins?

Or Holmes constantly having to go through Covington Catholic and Highlands, and a region with Ashland and Johnson Central?

Or Thomas Nelson, in a county already loaded with schools, knowing that if they’re in-district they’re staring at Bardstown, Christian Academy–Louisville, Central, and Lexington Catholic just to get out of the gate? That’s not even about winning a title—that’s about surviving.

But context matters.

Fun fact people forget: Boyle County never won a state title while being in the same class as Danville. Not one.
What changed? In 1999, the KHSAA adopted the “you must play in your class” rule. Danville had always played up. You can’t convince me that rule wasn’t influenced by programs realizing that playing up was impeding their own path to improvement.

Bowling Green had only one in it's school history until 6 classes.

Raceland had never been to a state final in old 4 or 3 classes.

You get the point and THERE ARE OTHERS.

Outside changes have happened for years to the structure of this thing, allowing programs to thrive & continue to do so more than before

That’s not “everyone gets a trophy.”
That’s acknowledging reality.

I’m not anti-multiplier—but I’m much more in favor of population density / demographic factors (Urban/Suburban/Rural) like Florida uses. That addresses the real imbalance without pretending success itself is the problem.

A long-term success review might eventually lead to an Open/D1-type tier anyway. I’d rather be honest about that than act like moving a few programs up is some moral punishment.

That’s not complaining.
That’s just saying out loud what a lot of people already know but won’t say.

Come on CJ, what schools move up if you were in charge!!??

I "challenge" anyone that thinks moving some teams up is a good idea, give us your teams, let's debate it. ?

On 1/21/2026 at 1:05 PM, ChiefSmoke said:

Speaking at your banquet this November was a huge honor for me. Corky and I go back 30 years. Wonderful man and coach.  I know you guys will hang tough. Appreciate you and what you do for the kids in Lewis County. 

I always get a kick out of all the "innovation" fuss over Dan Campbell, Ben Johnson, etc... going for it on 4th down. Corky Prater was doing that against me on his own 10 yard line over 20 years ago! And, often, they would get it!

He would tell me, "Dave, you guys are gonna score from your 10 or ours when you get the ball. We had nothing to lose." 

I tell you what, that strategy could keep them in the games against teams with much more talent. He was trying to squeeze more bodies in the phone booth and was dang good at it. 

I hope you are not angry with me for mentioning Lewis Co. Football. Being next door to you for 19 years,  I was always impressed with how you fought and navigated the obstacles you faced. Nothing but respect from me. ?

Not mad at you in the slightest, Coach...or you, Guru.  I was simply addressing the Drop out of district idea.  As long as myself, Coach Stamm, Coach Prater, Coach Hughes and all assistant coaches are still breathing, we will have football in Lewis County.  We couldn't have had a better Speaker at our Banquet, no doubt about that.  

4 minutes ago, OLinePride said:

Not mad at you in the slightest, Coach...or you, Guru.  I was simply addressing the Drop out of district idea.  As long as myself, Coach Stamm, Coach Prater, Coach Hughes and all assistant coaches are still breathing, we will have football in Lewis County.  We couldn't have had a better Speaker at our Banquet, no doubt about that.  

Good to hear, Coach.  I want the best for all football programs in Kentucky. 

I am surprised no one has taken a swipe at the Indiana model.  It looks to me like this model would elevate several teams from every class.  Here it is again if anyone wants to play with it.

Adopted in 2012, the success factor is built on a point system that evaluates schools’ sport-by-sport postseason finishes over the two years of a standard reclassification period. Any program that wins a sectional championship is assigned one point, with two points credited for a regional championship, three for a semi-state championship and four for a state title.

If a school team accrues six or more points during those two seasons, that team will compete in the next-highest classification for the following two-year period. Should the program continue its same level of success in its new classification, it will be moved up once again, with no limit on how high it can climb.

3 hours ago, Calico Jack said:

And this is also where the success multiplier gets really tricky—especially once you hit 6A.

Because what exactly do you do with 6A programs?

There’s nowhere to move them. No higher class. No clean solution. So now you’ve built a system where the “penalty for success” applies unevenly depending on class size. That alone should make us slow down.

Bad programs are still going to be bad—no matter what multiplier you use.
What we’re really talking about is how to classify good programs fairly without sending the message: “Congrats on doing everything right—now here’s your "punishment".”

A multiplier in Kentucky would be extremely unfair to almost all of 6A teams and the good 5A teams forced to move up into 6A.  None of the current 6A teams or the 5A teams forced to move up would escape the best teams in 6A.  In the case of the 5A teams forced to move up, I think it would be so egregious it would actually result in lost enrollment, especially for anyone concentrating on football.  

Additionally, the good 4A teams forced to move up would still dominate 5A since the good 5A teams would be forced to move up to 6A.  CAL would be dominate in 4A once the good teams in 5A are forced to move up.  The 2A "Legion of Doom" moving up to 3A would mostly dominate 3A with CAL gone.  The top four teams in 1A would be among the best of the best in 2A.  1A would probably benefit... ?‍♂️

In short, I think you nailed it @Calico Jack with this sentence: “Congrats on doing everything right—now here’s your "punishment".”

17 minutes ago, theguru said:

A multiplier in Kentucky would be extremely unfair to almost all of 6A teams and the good 5A teams forced to move up into 6A.  None of the current 6A teams or the 5A teams forced to move up would escape the best teams in 6A.  In the case of the 5A teams forced to move up, I think it would be so egregious it would actually result in lost enrollment, especially for anyone concentrating on football.  

Additionally, the good 4A teams forced to move up would still dominate 5A since the good 5A teams would be forced to move up to 6A.  CAL would be dominate in 4A once the good teams in 5A are forced to move up.  The 2A "Legion of Doom" moving up to 3A would mostly dominate 3A with CAL gone.  The top four teams in 1A would be among the best of the best in 2A.  1A would probably benefit... ?‍♂️

In short, I think you nailed it @Calico Jack with this sentence: “Congrats on doing everything right—now here’s your "punishment".”

I don’t know if I have the time to meet your challenge of what teams to specify, but when I’ve advocated for the promotion/relegation style, I’ve mentioned it would take some time for teams to find their level. There likely would be some of what you’re describing, that some teams moving into vacuum will likewise dominate. But over time, the expectation is that would iron out. 
 

As for what would happen to certain teams moved up, South Warren went to the state title game their first year in 6A. Gave Trinity by far their best game in the postseason. Bowling Green regularly has competed with and beaten St. X. I don’t understand the sentiment that these schools would have no shot.