Needed - KHSAA Football Improvements

[MBKT]

With Julian getting closer and closer to retirement, I doubt he has much appetite for significant changes, but a new KHSAA leadership group should consider some number of these potential improvements:

1. install a promotion and relegation system. The Beechwoods and CALs move up, the Western Hills and Shawnees move down. 

2. Drop down to either 4 or 5 classifications. Don’t fret so much about “geography”. We have 4 lane highways and interstate highways all over the Commonwealth. 

3. Expand Districts from 4 to 6 schools. See #2 above related to geography.

4. Shorten the season by one week by eliminating one round of the playoffs. 0-10 and 1-9 teams DO NOT earn a trip to the post season. 
 

5. Enable some sort of option for 2 schools to come together to form 1 football program. Way TOO MANY high school football programs in Kentucky have only 25 to 35 players in the entire program INCLUDING freshman. 

[gchs_uk9]

1 hour ago, MBKT said:

5. Enable some sort of option for 2 schools to come together to form 1 football program. Way TOO MANY high school football programs in Kentucky have only 25 to 35 players in the entire program INCLUDING freshman. 

Several states do different types of co-op programs. I think its a good idea, but before doing so, I'd like to see the KHSAA try eight-man football for the smallest schools. It was officially sanctioned with a playoff for four years in the late 90s/early 2000s and there were several eight-man teams across the state prior to mass consolidation in the 1960s and 70s. I believe it would help the Bereas, Cavernas, Eminences, Harlans, and other very small schools have a more competitive, more enjoyable football experience.

[AppalachianTactician]

30 minutes ago, gchs_uk9 said:

Several states do different types of co-op programs. I think its a good idea, but before doing so, I'd like to see the KHSAA try eight-man football for the smallest schools. It was officially sanctioned with a playoff for four years in the late 90s/early 2000s and there were several eight-man teams across the state prior to mass consolidation in the 1960s and 70s. I believe it would help the Bereas, Cavernas, Eminences, Harlans, and other very small schools have a more competitive, more enjoyable football experience.

Especially since many of these school struggle to find lineman more so than skill players.

[FootballGuy2121]

We can have these conversations all day, but nothing is going to change. Rinse and repeat. 

[theguru]

[Unrivaled97]

I agree with a lot of the original points listed above.  Kentucky is way too small of a state to have 6 classes.  We need to go back to 4 classes.  That was plenty.  Also, not everyone makes the playoffs.  Between 6 classes and most every team making the playoffs, except for a handful, it makes the 1st round of the playoffs and often the 2nd round of the playoffs very boring.  Finally, 8-man football is not a bad idea, but what about sprint football and allowing some schools to compete in a division like that, especially the smaller schools?  I wonder if that would help drive up participation numbers in small schools if the max weight limit was 190 lbs.  I think it's worth looking into.

[Tkinslow]

I think it’s hilarious that everyone gets so up in arms over first round playoff blowouts. Guess what there are blowouts every week in the regular season where teams are very mismatched. Are we going to quit playing those to same way with the they just have to travel to far when the schools apparently don’t mind because they schedule games where they have long road trips during the regular season every week. The only issue I have a problem with is you basically have 20 teams every season if that many that can win state. And it’s the same teams every year. And your suggestion of let them play in 6A on a volunteer basis would never work because none would volunteer because guess what they want to win state every year. The most logical thing I think is something like the Buford rule or just split the public and private up and let them play in two different divisions like Tennessee does. But all of this is a waste of time because nothing is changing my friends.

[Tkinslow]

6 minutes ago, Unrivaled97 said:

I agree with a lot of the original points listed above.  Kentucky is way too small of a state to have 6 classes.  We need to go back to 4 classes.  That was plenty.  Also, not everyone makes the playoffs.  Between 6 classes and most every team making the playoffs, except for a handful, it makes the 1st round of the playoffs and often the 2nd round of the playoffs very boring.  Finally, 8-man football is not a bad idea, but what about sprint football and allowing some schools to compete in a division like that, especially the smaller schools?  I wonder if that would help drive up participation numbers in small schools if the max weight limit was 190 lbs.  I think it's worth looking into.

So what happens to the kids that weigh more than 190 at these schools they just can’t play.

[Unrivaled97]

12 minutes ago, Tkinslow said:

So what happens to the kids that weigh more than 190 at these schools they just can’t play.

Yep, pretty much.  If you don't meet the requirements to be on the team, then you're not on the team.  Same as why basketball teams, baseball teams, etc. don't keep every kid that tries out.  I've seen kids weigh 315 lbs. that couldn't wrestle b/c they couldn't get down to the 285 lb. weight limit for HWT.  It's unfortunate, but it happens.

[theguru]

3 hours ago, MBKT said:

With Julian getting closer and closer to retirement, I doubt he has much appetite for significant changes, but a new KHSAA leadership group should consider some number of these potential improvements:

1. install a promotion and relegation system. The Beechwoods and CALs move up, the Western Hills and Shawnees move down. 

As most of you know, I am a Beechwood grad/guy.  Additionally, I think we all recognize how amazing the football program at CAL has been the last few years.  So if we are trying to do something like this in the name of fairness or equity or whatever you want to call it, we would have to start by kicking Trinity and St. Xavier out.  Otherwise, nothing about this is fair. 

[Purple88]

While I understand the argument that KY isn't a 6-class state and I agree with that overall.  But that would mean KHSAA would have change back and reformulate everything.  They last did this almost 20 years ago in 2007.  I just don't see an appetite to changing at KHSAA.  Does this mean they won't change back?  No, not necessarily, but my point is people are going to complain about something regardless.

I personally like 6 different champs.  It is watered down some, but in 4 classes the same teams win there too pretty much.  Was there better games then?  Yes possibly, but not overwhelmingly so.  If you go back and look at the scores in the state championship games between 2000 and 2006 (the last 7 years prior to going to 6 classes) there are some close games, but there are blowouts too.

I personally just think people like to complain about this.  Makes them feel like they got something off their chest. Whereas, I see two more teams earning a win at the end of the season and I like that.  It's hard to do.  We have more positives to talk about instead of another "just can't get over the hump" teams that get pretty old quick.

I don't like 10-0 teams being in the playoffs, but I don't pay attention to them and already expected them to lose.  They have never won a playoff game so why does it matter?  

[AppalachianTactician]

I don't see them changing the 6 class system either. I understand the not wanting to play the 1 seed vs the 4 seed and not every team getting into the playoffs, but the financial side of things make me wonder about a larger question: I think a 1 seed's administration would rather have them play a 4 seed team than have a bye because they would receive more gate money from those who attend the game, than having a bye week... One could also argue that if the clock gets running early it is basically a bye week anyway. 

 

I was presented an idea a few years ago where the 1 seeds get a bye and the cross districts 2 and 3 seeds play each other round 1. The 4 seeds would play each other as a bowl game. 1s get a bye, small schools get extra revenue and a level of competition they should be more apt to compete with. The same problem though, the district winners would lose a game of gate money and that could be upwards of $15-20k of ticket and concession money.   

[Tkinslow]

2 hours ago, Unrivaled97 said:

Yep, pretty much.  If you don't meet the requirements to be on the team, then you're not on the team.  Same as why basketball teams, baseball teams, etc. don't keep every kid that tries out.  I've seen kids weigh 315 lbs. that couldn't wrestle b/c they couldn't get down to the 285 lb. weight limit for HWT.  It's unfortunate, but it happens.

That would be asking for turmoil parents would lose their minds.

[Tigerpride94]

Ohio has 713 teams in 6 classes. KY has 222 teams in 6 classes. Shows how ridiculous it is that KY has 6 classes. If Ohio had roughly same teams per class as KY, they would have 19 classes. I would be fine with 5 classes since would probably have a good Top 10 in each class. Often after the Top 5 in 6 classes it's big drop off.

[Unrivaled97]

16 minutes ago, Tkinslow said:

That would be asking for turmoil parents would lose their minds.

I have no doubt you're correct about that, but parents already lose their minds nowadays about silly, sports related "issues" so it wouldn't be much different.  If a school didn't have a team, some parents would lose their minds.  If you have 8-man football, some parents would lose their minds b/c it's not traditional football.  Pretty much any way you go these days, there are some parent(s) who will lose their minds and cause turmoil.  Best advice I was ever given was if you try to make everyone happy, you'll end up making nobody happy, so run your program the way you see fit.  Not everything is fair but be consistent.