Fear of chemical weapons being used is circulating.  I sure hope not, that’s the beginning of WW3.

According to multiple news reports Russia is now using hypersonic missiles in combat against Ukraine.  Hypersonic missiles move 5 to 10 times faster than the speed of sound, fly low, move around, and are nearly impossible to take out with any defensive weapons. 

The War in Ukraine is slowly escalating. 

 

From Newsmax.com:

Saudi Arabia says Yemen’s Iran-backed Houthi Rebels target its energy facilities with a barrage of drone and missile strikes on Saudi Arabia early Sunday that targeted a liquified natural gas plant, water desalination plant, oil facility and power station.

This sure can't help oil prices.

And like all the other noteworthy military actions around the world, I have no idea if this has anything to do with the War in Ukraine. 

On 3/19/2022 at 12:45 PM, theguru said:

According to multiple news reports Russia is now using hypersonic missiles in combat against Ukraine.  Hypersonic missiles move 5 to 10 times faster than the speed of sound, fly low, move around, and are nearly impossible to take out with any defensive weapons. 

The War in Ukraine is slowly escalating. 

 

I've thought from the beginning that a by product of this invasion was to scare other former Soviet states to toe the line. As this drags on and Russian Military Invulnerability looks suspect at best, the only way to strike fear now is to ratchet things up with more powerful and lethal weapons. While this move may very well be an escalation, I feel it is desperate move that is grasping to salvage anything they can from this endeavor into Ukraine. 

I also fear this is a desperate move to draw NATO in, in the hopes of unifying the Russian people in an "Us against them" mind set.

49 minutes ago, Jumper_Dad said:

I've thought from the beginning that a by product of this invasion was to scare other former Soviet states to toe the line. As this drags on and Russian Military Invulnerability looks suspect at best, the only way to strike fear now is to ratchet things up with more powerful and lethal weapons. While this move may very well be an escalation, I feel it is desperate move that is grasping to salvage anything they can from this endeavor into Ukraine. 

I also fear this is a desperate move to draw NATO in, in the hopes of unifying the Russian people in an "Us against them" mind set.

If Russia wants to draw NATO in,  chemical and bio weapons will do it. Russia is laying the groundwork for this with their stories about bio weapons labs in Ukraine. 

Just now, Voice of Reason said:

If Russia wants to draw NATO in,  chemical and bio weapons will do it. Russia is laying the groundwork for this with their stories about bio weapons labs in Ukraine. 

I think the media has done us all a disservice on the labs in Ukraine.  Sure Russia will use the now public knowledge of these labs to create an environment where they can use bio/chemical weapons and blame it on the United States but the United States admits they fund/assist in running numerous bio labs in Ukraine and elsewhere in the region.  If you look at what is publicly available on these programs it is downright scary.

The Pentagon has conducted biological experiments with a potentially lethal outcome on 4,400 soldiers in Ukraine and 1,000 soldiers in Georgia. According to leaked documents, all volunteer deaths should be reported within 24 h (in Ukraine) and 48 h (in Georgia).

Both countries are considered the most loyal US partners in the region with a number of Pentagon programs being implemented in their territory. One of them is the $2.5 billion Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) Biological engagement program which includes research on bio agents, deadly viruses and antibiotic-resistant bacteria being studied on the local population.

DTRA has allocated $80 million for biological research in Ukraine as of 30 July 2020, according to information obtained from the US Federal contracts registry. Tasked with the program is the US company Black &Veatch Special Projects Corp.

The DTRA activities in Georgia and Ukraine fall under the protection of special bilateral agreements. According to these agreements, Georgia and Ukraine shall hold harmless, bring no legal proceedings and indemnify the United States and its personnel, contractors and contractors’ personnel, for damage to property, or death or injury to any persons in Georgia and Ukraine, arising out of activities under this Agreement. If DTRA-sponsored scientists cause deaths or injuries to the local population they cannot be held to account.

Furthermore, according to the US-Ukraine Agreement, claims by third parties for deaths and injuries in Ukraine, arising out of the acts or omissions of any employees of the United States related to work under this Agreement, shall be the responsibility of Ukraine.

http://dilyana.bg/documents-expose-us-biological-experiments-on-allied-soldiers-in-ukraine-and-georgia/

22 minutes ago, theguru said:

I think the media has done us all a disservice on the labs in Ukraine.  Sure Russia will use the now public knowledge of these labs to create an environment where they can use bio/chemical weapons and blame it on the United States but the United States admits they fund/assist in running numerous bio labs in Ukraine and elsewhere in the region.  If you look at what is publicly available on these programs it is downright scary.

The Pentagon has conducted biological experiments with a potentially lethal outcome on 4,400 soldiers in Ukraine and 1,000 soldiers in Georgia. According to leaked documents, all volunteer deaths should be reported within 24 h (in Ukraine) and 48 h (in Georgia).

Both countries are considered the most loyal US partners in the region with a number of Pentagon programs being implemented in their territory. One of them is the $2.5 billion Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) Biological engagement program which includes research on bio agents, deadly viruses and antibiotic-resistant bacteria being studied on the local population.

DTRA has allocated $80 million for biological research in Ukraine as of 30 July 2020, according to information obtained from the US Federal contracts registry. Tasked with the program is the US company Black &Veatch Special Projects Corp.

The DTRA activities in Georgia and Ukraine fall under the protection of special bilateral agreements. According to these agreements, Georgia and Ukraine shall hold harmless, bring no legal proceedings and indemnify the United States and its personnel, contractors and contractors’ personnel, for damage to property, or death or injury to any persons in Georgia and Ukraine, arising out of activities under this Agreement. If DTRA-sponsored scientists cause deaths or injuries to the local population they cannot be held to account.

Furthermore, according to the US-Ukraine Agreement, claims by third parties for deaths and injuries in Ukraine, arising out of the acts or omissions of any employees of the United States related to work under this Agreement, shall be the responsibility of Ukraine.

http://dilyana.bg/documents-expose-us-biological-experiments-on-allied-soldiers-in-ukraine-and-georgia/

Here is what snopes.com says about these stories.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/02/24/us-biolabs-ukraine-russia/

The US entered into an agreement in 2005 with Ukraine to help pay for upgrades on the bio labs. Virtually everything else on the labs is part of a Russian disinformation campaign that has been going on since 2018. The link above incudes links to numerous other reports that all conclude this is Russian disinformation.

Here is anothet link that talks more specifically about DTRA which also concludes these stories are Russian disinformation.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/feb/25/tweets/there-are-no-us-run-biolabs-ukraine-contrary-socia/

Finally, here is a link about the source in your post. The writer in that used to work for Bulgarian media controlled by a Russian oligarch and these biolab stories she reported originated in Russia.

https://mythdetector.ge/en/profiles/gaytandzhieva-dilyana/

4 hours ago, theguru said:

From Newsmax.com:

Saudi Arabia says Yemen’s Iran-backed Houthi Rebels target its energy facilities with a barrage of drone and missile strikes on Saudi Arabia early Sunday that targeted a liquified natural gas plant, water desalination plant, oil facility and power station.

This sure can't help oil prices.

And like all the other noteworthy military actions around the world, I have no idea if this has anything to do with the War in Ukraine. 

This is definitely a step towards a world War 3.  It's exactly the type of thing that isn't coincidence and can force other countries to action. 

8 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Here is what snopes.com says about these stories.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/02/24/us-biolabs-ukraine-russia/

The US entered into an agreement in 2005 with Ukraine to help pay for upgrades on the bio labs. Virtually everything else on the labs is part of a Russian disinformation campaign that has been going on since 2018. The link above incudes links to numerous other reports that all conclude this is Russian disinformation.

That analysis from snopes.com is addressing the tangential theory/discussion to justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine, propagandists claimed the attack was focused on secret U.S. biolabs there.  Here is the conclusion from the link you posted/quoted from:

In sum, there’s no evidence that Russia was targeting “U.S. biolabs” when they launched a full-scale attack on Ukraine in February 2022. This claim was just the latest iteration in a long-running disinformation campaign by the Kremlin and its supporters. 

===================

Again, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, America says the bio labs we fund and operate jointly in Ukraine are used for peaceful purposes only.  The news here is the United States of America has spent billions of dollars operating biological labs in Ukraine for the past 17 years.  The only real unknown is what specifically is being done in those labs because America admits the labs exist.  

===================

I see you added another link to your post VoR, the subheading on that "article" includes, "There are no US-run biolabs in Ukraine" which is false because we admit it.  Again, we admit we have the labs, what we don't know is the extent of what is being done in those labs.  Additionally, the fact sheet from that article quotes the same snopes.com article first out of the gate, lol.  Furthermore, the article from Gaytandzhieva actually includes several official documents unlike all the "fact checkers" echoing each other.

Coming full circle, this is what I mean by a disservice.  We have joint operated bio labs in Ukraine.  I don't know why the media can't admit that fact and then pick up on any theories from there.  Instead, many in the media (and others) conflate the existence of the labs with the labs allegedly being bio warfare labs, and then conflate that (in the case of snopes) with the reason Russia attacked Ukraine. 

2 hours ago, theguru said:

That analysis from snopes.com is addressing the tangential theory/discussion to justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine, propagandists claimed the attack was focused on secret U.S. biolabs there.  Here is the conclusion from the link you posted/quoted from:

In sum, there’s no evidence that Russia was targeting “U.S. biolabs” when they launched a full-scale attack on Ukraine in February 2022. This claim was just the latest iteration in a long-running disinformation campaign by the Kremlin and its supporters. 

===================

Again, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, America says the bio labs we fund and operate jointly in Ukraine are used for peaceful purposes only.  The news here is the United States of America has spent billions of dollars operating biological labs in Ukraine for the past 17 years.  The only real unknown is what specifically is being done in those labs because America admits the labs exist.  

===================

I see you added another link to your post VoR, the subheading on that "article" includes, "There are no US-run biolabs in Ukraine" which is false because we admit it.  Again, we admit we have the labs, what we don't know is the extent of what is being done in those labs.  Additionally, the fact sheet from that article quotes the same snopes.com article first out of the gate, lol.  Furthermore, the article from Gaytandzhieva actually includes several official documents unlike all the "fact checkers" echoing each other.

Coming full circle, this is what I mean by a disservice.  We have joint operated bio labs in Ukraine.  I don't know why the media can't admit that fact and then pick up on any theories from there.  Instead, many in the media (and others) conflate the existence of the labs with the labs allegedly being bio warfare labs, and then conflate that (in the case of snopes) with the reason Russia attacked Ukraine. 

The two links I provided both say the labs are run by Ukraine. The US provided dollars to upgrade the labs.

Bottom line from all I have read is the entire bio lab story is Russian disinformation. I trust free media in the US over Russian media.

1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

The two links I provided both say the labs are run by Ukraine. The US provided dollars to upgrade the labs.

Bottom line from all I have read is the entire bio lab story is Russian disinformation. I trust free media in the US over Russian media.

The US funds and supervises the labs under what is called the Weapons Proliferation agreement signed in 2005 and furthermore if anything isn't covered or comes up outside the agreement then the "Umbrella Agreement" prevails which was the 1993 agreement where Ukraine agreed to give up their nukes with the promise of protection from a Russian attack among other things. America clearly funds, runs, and controls these labs and we use the country of Ukraine as a pawn and as the responsible party if anything goes wrong.  One final note that I mentioned earlier in this thread, mysteriously and for whatever reason, much of the information about the labs has been scrubbed off the internet recently. 

40 minutes ago, theguru said:

The US funds and supervises the labs under what is called the Weapons Proliferation agreement signed in 2005 and furthermore if anything isn't covered or comes up outside the agreement then the "Umbrella Agreement" prevails which was the 1993 agreement where Ukraine agreed to give up their nukes with the promise of protection from a Russian attack among other things. America clearly funds, runs, and controls these labs and we use the country of Ukraine as a pawn and as the responsible party if anything goes wrong.  One final note that I mentioned earlier in this thread, mysteriously and for whatever reason, much of the information about the labs has been scrubbed off the internet recently. 

I will research further but that is all contrary to what I have read so far. Why would the US do this in Ukraine versus in the US?

Just now, Voice of Reason said:

I will research further but that is all contrary to what I have read so far. Why would the US do this in Ukraine versus in the US?

I covered that VoR, the US uses Ukraine as the responsible party if anything goes wrong.  You know, the old plausible deniability charade. 

Let's not kid ourselves, America better be operating a bunch of bio and chem labs because we know our enemies are and we need to keep up to protect our national security.

While I have you here, what exactly do you believe?  From reading your posts I guess you believe that we gave Ukraine some money and technical help for somewhere between 15 to 30 bio labs in Ukraine and the Ukrainians have been over there doing their own thing in these labs for the last 17 years?

 

2 hours ago, theguru said:

I covered that VoR, the US uses Ukraine as the responsible party if anything goes wrong.  You know, the old plausible deniability charade. 

Let's not kid ourselves, America better be operating a bunch of bio and chem labs because we know our enemies are and we need to keep up to protect our national security.

While I have you here, what exactly do you believe?  From reading your posts I guess you believe that we gave Ukraine some money and technical help for somewhere between 15 to 30 bio labs in Ukraine and the Ukrainians have been over there doing their own thing in these labs for the last 17 years?

 

I had not paid much attention to this until these posts today. From what I have read so far, I think the US has given support to 6 labs since 2005 but the Ukrainians run them. I believe the Russia propaganda machine is spewing and it is working with some Americans and with some media and others who make money attacking their own country. 

Finally and most assuredly I believe Russia is spewing this disinformation to lay the groundwork to use chemical, bio and mass destruction weapons in Ukraine. 

46 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

I had not paid much attention to this until these posts today. From what I have read so far, I think the US has given support to 6 labs since 2005 but the Ukrainians run them. I believe the Russia propaganda machine is spewing and it is working with some Americans and with some media and others who make money attacking their own country. 

Finally and most assuredly I believe Russia is spewing this disinformation to lay the groundwork to use chemical, bio and mass destruction weapons in Ukraine. 

Russian Version:  America and Ukraine work together inside Ukraine in American funded biological warfare labs.

American Version:  America and Ukraine work together inside Ukraine in American funded biological research labs.