Ukrainian Snipers have been notably very proficient in taking out Russian Officers.

Coincidentally after Russia invaded Crimea in 2014 the CIA set up a covert program to train Ukrainian Snipers. 

Russia has deployed a one-off prototype tank to Ukraine, the T-80UM2. The tank was recently destroyed as several photos of it have been posted by media. 

Another move the reeks of desperation by the Russian military. This was the latest greatest update on the venerable T-80 main battle tank that supposedly had active defensive systems on-board to protect the tank.

51 minutes ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Russia has deployed a one-off prototype tank to Ukraine, the T-80UM2. The tank was recently destroyed as several photos of it have been posted by media. 

Another move the reeks of desperation by the Russian military. This was the latest greatest update on the venerable T-80 main battle tank that supposedly had active defensive systems on-board to protect the tank.

 

On 3/20/2022 at 11:26 PM, theguru said:

Russian Version:  America and Ukraine work together inside Ukraine in American funded biological warfare labs.

American Version:  America and Ukraine work together inside Ukraine in American funded biological research labs. 

This bugs me so I want to discuss further. There are people in America including notable media personalities who embrace and promote the Russian claims versus the American. Why is that? Why would anyone trust one story promoted by Russia? If there was a story from Russia saying it is raining in Moscow, I would fact check the heck out if it and still be skeptical before reporting it.

6 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

This bugs me so I want to discuss further. There are people in America including notable media personalities who embrace and promote the Russian claims versus the American. Why is that? Why would anyone trust one story promoted by Russia? If there was a story from Russia saying it is raining in Moscow, I would fact check the heck out if it and still be skeptical before reporting it.

- "If you don't read the news you're uninformed.  If you do read the news you're misinformed."

- Denzel Washington

4 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

This bugs me so I want to discuss further. There are people in America including notable media personalities who embrace and promote the Russian claims versus the American. Why is that? Why would anyone trust one story promoted by Russia? If there was a story from Russia saying it is raining in Moscow, I would fact check the heck out if it and still be skeptical before reporting it.

To directly answer your question because in my opinion the Russian Version makes more sense.

When you search the Internet a lot of good links come from general searches instead of trying to specifically search for Ukrainian/American labs.  From searching, and from news reports, apparently America operates over 300 biolabs around the world.  I think that number includes somewhere around 200 in the United States and around 100 in foreign countries but don't hold me to the exact numbers please.  Here is something interesting from one of the articles (COVID19 inspired article from last year) I read and I believe it bridges the gap:

The vast majority of countries with maximum containment labs do not regulate dual-use research, which refers to experiments that are conducted for peaceful purposes but can be adapted to cause harm; or gain-of-function research, which is focused on increasing the ability of a pathogen to cause disease.

Three of the 23 countries with BSL4 labs (Australia, Canada and the US) have national policies for oversight of dual-use research. At least three other countries (Germany, Switzerland and the UK) have some form of dual-use oversight, where, for instance, funding bodies require their grant recipients to review their research for dual-use implications.

https://theconversation.com/fifty-nine-labs-around-world-handle-the-deadliest-pathogens-only-a-quarter-score-high-on-safety-161777

To reiterate a point I made earlier in the thread, duel-use research is something America has to do because it is in our national security interests and if you take the above link at face value several countries do it, most of them without oversight.  Scary stuff!

1 hour ago, Randy Parker said:

- "If you don't read the news you're uninformed.  If you do read the news you're misinformed."

- Denzel Washington

 

1 hour ago, theguru said:

To directly answer your question because in my opinion the Russian Version makes more sense.

 Putting these two posts together because I believe they have the same message. What "makes sense" is huge as we all read information and stories. There are many times that I think a story through and conclude it makes no sense and it becomes pretty obvious if something is false or not. I can see where it does make sense to do research in labs in other countries. The truth on this lab story, as it so often is on most stories, is somewhere in the middle.

The other thing I look at when reading stories and information is the motivation to report a certain way. The vast majority of the time on all of these stories is the person promoting it has an agenda that is usually rooted in money in their pocket. These people who promote conspiracy theories are making money off of promoting their theories. Conspiracy theories are a profit center. Source and motivation are big for me when looking to see if a story really "makes sense".

3 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

 

 Putting these two posts together because I believe they have the same message. What "makes sense" is huge as we all read information and stories. There are many times that I think a story through and conclude it makes no sense and it becomes pretty obvious if something is false or not. I can see where it does make sense to do research in labs in other countries. The truth on this lab story, as it so often is on most stories, is somewhere in the middle.

The other thing I look at when reading stories and information is the motivation to report a certain way. The vast majority of the time on all of these stories is the person promoting it has an agenda that is usually rooted in money in their pocket. These people who promote conspiracy theories are making money off of promoting their theories. Conspiracy theories are a profit center. Source and motivation are big for me when looking to see if a story really "makes sense".

In the middle sounds a lot like duel-use in this case and that makes the Russian Version the better version. ?‍♀️

When it comes to motivations to "tell the truth" here, remember, we invaded Iraq because we said they had weapons of mass destruction (to my knowledge that was never proven).  Since we admit we have bio labs in Ukraine those labs would be a "justification" for Russia to invade Ukraine if you want to apply an American standard from the past.  Simply put, on that one point alone (not to mention our national security interests requiring duel-use labs) I think America has a pretty strong motivation not to tell the whole truth about our bio labs in Ukraine. 

I just read a news report that said some of Russian soldiers are suffering from frostbite because they lack the appropriate cold weather gear for the for the environment that they're in.

2 hours ago, theguru said:

When it comes to motivations to "tell the truth" here, remember, we invaded Iraq because we said they had weapons of mass destruction (to my knowledge that was never proven).  Since we admit we have bio labs in Ukraine those labs would be a "justification" for Russia to invade Ukraine if you want to apply an American standard from the past.  Simply put, on that one point alone (not to mention our national security interests requiring duel-use labs) I think America has a pretty strong motivation not to tell the whole truth about our bio labs in Ukraine. 

Iraq had used those weapons on numerous occasions in the past, I think that was also a big part of the reason. Those weapons came from somewhere, maybe someday it will all be unclassified and we will know the complete truth.

11 minutes ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Iraq had used those weapons on numerous occasions in the past, I think that was also a big part of the reason. Those weapons came from somewhere, maybe someday it will all be unclassified and we will know the complete truth.

I understand that but allegedly Iraq got rid of them before we went in and we never found any.  We may never know the complete truth but I strongly suspect had we found in Iraq what we admit we have in Ukraine we would say here is the evidence.  Here is what the Arms Control Association says about it:

In retrospect, therefore, it seems reasonable to conclude that one of the most significant reasons that U.S. and British troops have not found nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons or proscribed missiles in Iraq is that, following the 1991 Gulf War, the bulk of these weapons and associated facilities were destroyed either by the United Nations or unilaterally by Iraq. Thus, significant quantities of proscribed weapons (nuclear, chemical, or missile) simply did not exist. On top of that, any attempt by Baghdad to regenerate its proscribed weapons programs was effectively inhibited by the package of other UN control measures in operation since 1991.

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2003-09/features/what-happened-saddams-weapons-mass-destruction

According to multiple news reports the Ukrainians have destroyed a Russian landing ship and damaged two others. I wonder what weapons systems were used against the ships.  

 

Two other updates:

1. Ukraine counteroffensive around Kyiv is making some progress. One small town north of Kyiv has been retaken by the Ukrainians. 

2. Proof of Ukraine success and Russian non-existent care for human life - Russian soldiers are left laying on battlefields and becoming a problem as the weather warms up. The Russians leaving their brothers behind. Ukraine has offered refrigerated rail cars to the Russians to send bodies home to families but no interest from Russians. The Russians reportedly have crematoriums with them. Burn bodies versus sending them home. No way to ID. Russian families left to wonder what happened to their children, brothers, husbands. And easier for Russian controlled media to act like no one is dying in Ukraine.

As this goes on Russia is looking more and more like the most brutal, autocratic nation in history. The indiscriminate bombing of cities with no regard for life. No regard for their own soldiers. The 21st century has a villian for all history to remember.