On 3/1/2023 at 11:17 AM, theguru said:

The first thing I would do is double the pay and I don't want to hear about the costs, figure it out before there is nothing left. 

This x10000000. 

I can speak from experience, I was involved with a youth organization that had more money than they should have had and hated giving up even a nickle more than they needed to. It was - and still is I'm sure - ridiculous how they behaved fiscally. 

I don't want to hear ANYONE bemoan that its not possible to double the officials' pay. 

3 hours ago, FrankNicodemus said:

I guess I missed this thread being resurrected earlier this week.

Is your hope for doubling the pay the following:

•  Hopefully get more people interested in officiating
• Make the current population of officials feel like they need to invest more time on being a better official
• It will make being verbally (and hopefully not physically) assaulted day in and day out doing their games justifiable since they are getting paid more

It be great if we only had to solve the first 2 points which money wouldn't hurt, but its the 3rd bullet that money can't solve in my opinion.  It must stop and if it happens it MUST be dealt with immediately.

Simply that money talks. 

Every official in KY is chanting this now!

Issue solved.......

5 minutes ago, FrankNicodemus said:

Every official in KY is chanting this now!

Issue solved.......

I am not saying it would solve the issue but it would be a stop-gap while the powers that be figure out what they are going to do about out of control parents.

On 2/12/2022 at 7:03 PM, PP1 said:

@FrankNicodemusSo if I may ask, what is the accountability system for a referee? If a ref is throwing unsportsmanlike flags every single week, does anyone ever ask him, or her, "why?" 

If there is no consequence, why do they care if a coach yells at them? They make their money, get in their car, and they drive home. They'll do the same thing next week. I doubt they will ever get hit with several emails the next morning from parents. I think a football coach probably has to deal with more stress than a back or field judge.

However, it is really bad to cuss at an official. It is really bad to call them mean names. It is horrible and, in my opinion, should be illegal to ever touch a referee. No one has the right to treat another person like that. 

I've officiated before and acknowledge that it is really hard. 

 

Two things can both be true:

* Officials are in dire need of a pay rate that should reflect the work they do and risks/abuse they take.

* There is a problem within the officials ranks in the area of protecting of each other being more valued than enforcing quality/accountability. At times, it's very similar to the way sometimes we read about rogue cops being protected because of the thin blue line. 

 

4 minutes ago, BrosefStalin said:

Two things can both be true:

* Officials are in dire need of a pay rate that should reflect the work they do and risks/abuse they take.

* There is a problem within the officials ranks in the area of protecting of each other being more valued than enforcing quality/accountability. At times, it's very similar to the way sometimes we read about rogue cops being protected because of the thin blue line. 

 

I think rogue cops are pretty isolated and almost always in big cities (usually with lower hiring standards) where things have been going downhill for decades.  One thing is for sure, the profession of policing has been attacked so much that it will require hiring lesser quality candidates and that will definitely lead to more problems down the road.  Coming full circle, where I live in Florence, the police have received some pretty substantial raises and I am tickled pink about that because it means we will get better candidates and we probably won't have a local shortage of police officers.  Finally, anytime you pay more money for a job you are going to get more people willing to do it.

I disagree that the officials would rather protect one another more then enforcing quality/accountability.

In the Power 4 sports : football, soccer, basketball, baseball.....I don't believe you are only dealing with 1 official.  there is either 2 -> 7 officials depending on the sport.  

No one wants to officiate with an official that is not quality.  If you happen to be on a crew with one that is lacking experience or knowledge you are coaching them up just like a coach does to a rookie on the field of play.

Bad apples are known, normally the assignors realize it as well and won't be using those officials in "Premier" games unless absolutely necessary b/c of the shortage.

One of the things about the shortage, we know everyone and what to expect when that person shows up to the game.....good officials know how to handle below average quality officials on their crew to help improve them.

What is the pay for a Highschool football game?

I'm not sure about the other sports but with basketball it seems like you could get a pretty good idea of how good an individual official or crew is by reviewing video if the video is of sufficient quality.  It's easy to go frame by frame and watch the plays multiple times.  I know the calls are made quickly and in the heat of the moment so it would primarily be useful to look for trends.  If the same official or crew appeared to be biased, mistaken about the rules, or consistently out of position it would alert the supervisors to keep an eye on them.  Everyone makes mistakes and that's understandable but I've seen some very bad officiating the last couple of years.  

Not everyone with knowledge of the game wants to be an official but there are plenty like me who can't run up and down the court anymore due to bad knees but who know the rules and have the time to review video.  You'd need to pay them something but it would probably be worth it.

I also have a question.  Is there any review process for technical fouls?  Do the officials have to report what the technical was for and do the coaches have any way to report that to the supervisor of officials if it appeared to be personal or unduly influence the outcome of the game?  

I loved officiating football, but the number one thing for me was lack of sportsmanship from the players. Over 20 years it dropped like a rock, though  it mainly came from coaches who refused to hold their players accountable. My last regular season game we threw a player out for throwing punches, the coach defended him and the fans seemed to think we were in the wrong for doing so. 
 

I sat on that field for a meaningless last week of the season game feeling like we were babysitting not only the players but the coaches and the fans. It was that night I decided I was done once my playoff assignment(s) were over. 
 

I love football, the pay was never a hang up for me, but I was finally done dealing with the lack of respect. I loved the road trips, it gave you more time to actually get to know each other. I loved driving home from a game and just replaying it in your mind, what I could’ve done in a certain situation. Getting home around 1030-11pm on a Friday night sitting in the living room stretching while having a few pops, and still replaying the game in my head. Getting to the JV game the next day and rehashing scenarios with guys from the previous night. Watching not only my game film but other crews on our hudl account to see plays and situations to try and improve myself for the next week. But I had enough.

I still  go to games every Friday but I stand by myself because I can’t stand Average Joe yelling about a “missed” call while also using the wrong terminology. The lack of not only quality officials, but officials in general in all sports is very real and will keep getting worse before getting better. Blame the officials for thin skin but look in the mirror as well. How thick is your skin when you’re berating and demeaning someone who is supposed to be respected.
 

 

On 2/10/2022 at 2:41 PM, nees1212 said:

For those that officiate, who do you have the biggest issue with?

Coaches

Players

Parents/fans

Administration

1. Parents/Fans both at games and on message boards

2. Would be Coaches/Players both

Last is Administration. 

I think step number one is very easy. No yelling at officials. Yelling at officials is grounds for removal. Announce it before the game with the sportsmanship announcement. Post it on signage at the event. Then enforce it. Start throwing fans out of games and it will end. It is on the game management to enforce it.

On 3/3/2023 at 12:30 PM, theguru said:

Simply that money talks. 

It does 100%. But it also talks in the cost aspect of things as well and what is required of each umpire. There is also a big pull from travel/rec programs that reduce the pool of umpires for High School from both above levels and levels below. I have way more experience with baseball. I can say that the pay is absolutely a turnoff for anyone who is looking to get into officiating at the high school level. 
Let's look at requirements for officials to work KHSAA events vs local rec for example. This is assuming that you have already purchased protective equipment and uniforms and am only worried about year over year requirements.

Requirement to Officiate KHSAA:

1. KHSAA Dues($70)
2. Local Association Dues($50-$70)
3. Attend at least 4 meetings for Postseason Eligibility
4. Pass Background Check
5. Pass Part 1 test for initial certification
6. Pass Part 2 test year over year for post season eligibility
7. Wait days to weeks to get paid.

Requirement for local travel/rec games

1. Possibly join officiating group?($50-$70) but not really required.
2. Show up and get paid on the spot by the coaches.
3. No meetings
4. No Rules tests

Now, let's look at the pay you receive:

KHSAA:

1. $75 Single game - $140 Doubleheader(Rare in Northern Kentucky unless the weekend) Maybe once you will get a Tripleheader
2. Work 1 person game in JV and below. Two person in Varsity games
3. No Time limit

Travel/Rec

1. 9u-13u: One umpire games paid $35-$40 cash from each coach for a total of $70-$80. Work up to 5 games on a Saturday and another 3-5 on a Sunday.
2. 14u: $70-$80 cash from each coach
3. Time limits set at No new inning at 1:45.