You keep trying to justify his last and worst year of hos career with OBP. You never mention AVG. HR or RBI'S. The three best offense catories in Baseball. I am sure that when the Reds signed him for that money, they said we want you to league the league in OBP every year. Lead off would be his ideal batting spot at this stage of his career but this year he is striking out much more and walking much less. First base has always been a power position in baseball not an on base position.

 

Well I guess three times of mentioning it wasn't enough. So the 4th time I have said he also was in the top 40 in all of baseball in batting average, and also top 40 in OPS. So there are 30 teams in baseball correct? 9 batters in the every day lineup every day. So 30 times 9 is 270. So he was in the top 40 out of 270 players. So he was in the top 15% of all baseball players in batting average last year. Better than 85% of all batters last year in baseball in batting average. But yeah ok he was bad. By his standards it was not a good year. For the standard of all MLB players he had a season the majority of players would have wanted to have.

Mahle pulled after 5 with only 84 pitches. Again, I'm going to trust the wizardry that is David Bell for a year, before I'm griping to feed him to the wolves, but he also pulled a guy after 5.2 that was at 85 pitches last night. Hope the bullpen is healthy come August!

I haven’t researched it, but didn’t Dusty Baker have the rep of burning out the bullpen? Where’s LRCW when you need him for confirmation?

2-2 series is not enough for me to have the right to start the next series. Next one up.

Sorry but 12 hrs and 67 rbi in over 600 ab from your stud 3rd place hitter does not qualify as a good season in anybody’s book, don’t see how it could. Yes, you’re correct about the obp but I guess my biggest gripe with Votto is he seems to value that over driving in runs, as a result 67 rbi and only 5 this year. I watched probably 155 games last year and if you did also you have to be like me and lost count of how many times Votto took a 2-0 or 3-1 fastball down the heart of the plate belt high with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs and the infield back, from the 3 hole hitter??? Go to whacking, hit a grounder, hit a fly ball, GET THE RUN IN!! Then he’d end up with a walk and we wouldn’t score, which is not directly his fault I know, just seems like he’s more interested in keeping up the obp than driving in the run!

 

It's pretty simple compared to the majority of baseball players who played last year he still had a better year than most. A year where most players would love to have those numbers. Yes his homeruns and RBIs were down. But yet still top 3 in OBP, and you all seem to keep ignoring the fact he was in top 40 in both batting average and OPS. So basically he was better than 85% of all MLB baseball players last year in batting average. So by Votto standards he set for himself yes it was a down year. For the standard of a MLB player, he was still better than most.

 

Which you all do realize the great job he does getting on base. Was the big reason why Gennett, and Suarez RBIs numbers were way up last year. Yet you all seem to focus on only one area. Not to mention the guys in front of Votto last year like Hamilton usually werent even able to get on base enough for him to get as many chances to hit them in. Like Votto gave the guys behind him by getting on base. In baseball the end goal is not to get out, if more players on the team also didnt get out like Votto then you also score that way too.

 

What Votto has done is one of the big reasons why usually offense is not problem for the reds each year. Usually it is mainly the pitchers being the problem. So yes Votto usually does start slow, and usually does pick it up. Then especially even if he ends up with exact same numbers as last year, then he did a very good job for the offense. Especially since Bell has him hitting first or second a lot this year. Which the goal of that is for him to be on base, once he starts warming up.

Umpire Marty Foster missed more than 25% of balls/strikes today according to the Umpire Auditor.

 

That’s absurdly bad.

I haven’t researched it, but didn’t Dusty Baker have the rep of burning out the bullpen? Where’s LRCW when you need him for confirmation?

 

I'm pretty sure his rep was burning out young starting pitchers by keeping them in to long. So Bell is more the exact opposite right now.

I don’t have a dog in the Votto fight. That being said, how does he stack up in the “runs created” Sabermetrics-type algorithms?

I'm pretty sure his rep was burning out young starting pitchers by keeping them in to long. So Bell is more the exact opposite right now.

Thanks. I misremembered.

Well I guess three times of mentioning it wasn't enough. So the 4th time I have said he also was in the top 40 in all of baseball in batting average, and also top 40 in OPS. So there are 30 teams in baseball correct? 9 batters in the every day lineup every day. So 30 times 9 is 270. So he was in the top 40 out of 270 players. So he was in the top 15% of all baseball players in batting average last year. Better than 85% of all batters last year in baseball in batting average. But yeah ok he was bad. By his standards it was not a good year. For the standard of all MLB players he had a season the majority of players would have wanted to have.

 

First of all there are 240 players as 30 of those players are NL pitchers. In HR, (12) last year, he was 181st which is about 25% in all MLB. In RBI, (67) last year, he was 67th which is about 38% in all MLB. In runs scored, (67) he was 102nd, which was about 43% in all MLB. Just simply, not good enough.

Edited May 3, 20197 yr by sumoroyal

Votto went from 36 HR and 100 RBI in 2017 to 12 HR and 67 RBI. His walks went from 134 to 108 and strikeouts from 83 to 101. He went like 2 months without a HR. It just was not a good year and this year is following the same path.

First of all there are 240 players as 30 of those players are NL pitchers. In HR, (12) last year, he was 181st which is about 25% in all MLB. In RBI, (67) last year, he was 67th which is about 38% in all MLB. In runs scored, (67) he was 102nd, which was about 43% in all MLB. Just simply, not good enough.

 

Votto went from 36 HR and 100 RBI in 2017 to 12 HR and 67 RBI. His walks went from 134 to 108 and strikeouts from 83 to 101. He went like 2 months without a HR. It just was not a good year and this year is following the same path.

 

So you are using numbers that almost made him MVP in 2017 to compare lol just because his numbers last year were not at an MVP level, doesn't mean it was a bad year. Once again the majority of starting major league baseball players would definitely take that season. Hence the backlash you have gotten by saying he was bad. He was not bad, he simply wasnt at an MVP level last season. Then you mention the start of this season is irrelevant because even in his MVP type years when he has finished in top 10 of voting he has gotten off to very slow starts. So using the start of this season carries very little weight in your argument.

 

Now if you want to say his production last year didnt meet the financial aspects of what he is getting paid. Then you wouldn't get much push back. But as someone else mentioned most stars, when they get those huge contracts. Don't meet the value of the contract during its last few years. Just like guys like Bryce Harper, and probably even Mike Trout. While Trout is putting up historical numbers since he has been in the league, which led to his new rich contract. Most likely the last few years of his contract he won't be at the same amazing level as what got him that contract. So he may be playing good still at that time, but doesnt mean it would no longer be good enough to match his pay.

 

Votto last year was not bad, he just simply wasn't MVP level like last year. However, the majority of players would have loved to have had his year last year. So it doesnt mean he was bad like you two keep saying. Just means he maybe didnt produce to the level of his contract, which eventually happens to all star players at the end of their contracts. So if you want to say he didnt produce to his contract last year, then no argument here.

At the end of the day, you can't keep losing the 1 run games, but I did see a stat today to show how close they are. If you take only 3 of those 1-run loses and flip them they are at 16-15, a winning record at this point, still not leading the division, but a much better taste in your mouth. Hopefully Senzel can add a little spark.

@nkypete @CincySportsFan @MJAlltheWay24 @Voice of Reason @Jumper_Dad @UKMustangFan @futurecoach @OlDog75

 

This is my PSA for us to refuse to let any other enjoyable Reds threads be dragged down by complete negativity. From this moment forward I hope that you will join me in only commenting on the facts of the games/series while also keeping it an overall enjoyable experience. There are times to call your team out, but let's keep it together and focused on having a good time and the beauty of the game of baseball.

 

My goal going forward is to avoid replying to the comments that are obviously pointed and continuously negative.

@futurecoach, isn't it your turn to start a series thread?

Thor hammered us in more ways than one yesterday.

@nkypete @CincySportsFan @MJAlltheWay24 @Voice of Reason @Jumper_Dad @UKMustangFan @futurecoach @OlDog75

 

This is my PSA for us to refuse to let any other enjoyable Reds threads be dragged down by complete negativity. From this moment forward I hope that you will join me in only commenting on the facts of the games/series while also keeping it an overall enjoyable experience. There are times to call your team out, but let's keep it together and focused on having a good time and the beauty of the game of baseball.

 

My goal going forward is to avoid replying to the comments that are obviously pointed and continuously negative.

@futurecoach, isn't it your turn to start a series thread?

 

My bad, @ChickenWyngz, I didn't see you edit this post this morning...so, I didn't see your request to have @futurecoach start the next thread until just now. Sorry for jumping the gun.