No question in my mind that two high class women would have been treated differently. And as I have said in this thread, I am usually hesitant to blame things on race. But two minutes tells the story more than anything.

 

I don't go to Starbucks very often just because I think they're badly overpriced. Every once in a while when I am at Barnes and Noble I will get a frappucino. The Smores flavor is really good. Their regular coffee is overrated though IMO.

 

My wife loves it. Buys it at their restaurant and at the grocery store so she can have it at home and work.

They should change the name to Fivebucks.

And to add to that, I’m pretty sure the woman who videotaped it, Elizabeth DePino, stated that there was at least one other white person on Starbucks, chilling, not buying anything, using the WiFi and the bathroom whenever they wanted to, without any issue from the 911 calling fired manager.

 

I’m sure I saw this reported somewhere.

 

That was referenced in this thread, I think. More damning evidence if true.

And they were arrested?

 

If they refuse to leave, absolutely. Police don't bluff in those situations usually.

If they refuse to leave, absolutely. Police don't bluff in those situations usually.

 

With the social media the way it is and with any and everyone dying for attention when they were wronged I’d be willing to bet that it doesn’t happen that often at all without good reason. You’ll have a hard time convincing me that there was a good reason to call the police on these two gentlemen when it appears they weren’t making a scene at all.

I despise Starbucks with every ounce of energy in my body. Think they are extremely over priced and the weird vibe I get when I spend the 10 seconds in their (when I pick up an online order for my wife) gives me a the hee bee geebies. But If I walked in and just sat down, was asked to leave if I wasn't going to order anything, and I wasn't waiting for someone then I'd be inclined to leave. If I was waiting for someone I'd explain I was, if I was asked to leave again I'd leave and they'd never get my buisness again.

 

Of course the scenario isn't quite the same. The bathroom at the local Bucks doesn't require asking for a key, so I could slide in in an emergency situation and probably not be looked at (of course I am white).

 

Bottom line is if the business doesn't want your money (which they do) they have the right to refuse and ask you to leave and if you don't you'll have to deal with the consequences

I despise Starbucks with every ounce of energy in my body. Think they are extremely over priced and the weird vibe I get when I spend the 10 seconds in their (when I pick up an online order for my wife) gives me a the hee bee geebies. But If I walked in and just sat down, was asked to leave if I wasn't going to order anything, and I wasn't waiting for someone then I'd be inclined to leave. If I was waiting for someone I'd explain I was, if I was asked to leave again I'd leave and they'd never get my buisness again.

 

Of course the scenario isn't quite the same. The bathroom at the local Bucks doesn't require asking for a key, so I could slide in in an emergency situation and probably not be looked at (of course I am white).

 

Bottom line is if the business doesn't want your money (which they do) they have the right to refuse and ask you to leave and if you don't you'll have to deal with the consequences

 

No argument but if I can assume you're white like me you and I do not have the same perspective as these two guys who probably have experienced what they perceive to be racism and undoubtedly know family members who have experienced it. At some point you just get to the point of saying "NO" and then put up with the consequences.

I have a hard time believing that every person in this thread wouldn’t question the manager of an establishment if they were being asked to leave for no true reason while waiting to meet someone.

I haven't read the article but this one makes my spider sense tingle.

 

My gut says if two sophisticated white women walked in to use the restroom nothing would have been said to them.

 

I don't know if it was profiling or not, stupidity knows no bounds. I will say I've been told I couldn't use a restroom in an establishment before unless I was a paying customer. Then again, I'm not a sophisticated white woman. Just an average, at best, white guy so, no love for me.

I have a hard time believing that every person in this thread wouldn’t question the manager of an establishment if they were being asked to leave for no true reason while waiting to meet someone.

No doubt I would. But I also wouldn't refuse to leave.

I think the manager followed the company policy.

 

To me, the question at hand is if he/she follows that policy all the time. As Guru stated early in this thread, does the manager apply the policy if these are two, high-class women?

 

It is nearly impossible to follow the policy "all the time." An employee is not necessarily looking for violators of the policy. It's something that gets noticed for some reason, like someone asking to use the restroom. Or if the place is really busy and people are waiting in line for tables, can you see if anyone is just sitting there without making a purchase. Then you assess and decide if a policy is being broken and whether to ask the person to leave or not.

 

To me, the only relevant question is whether the employee asked the two men to leave because they were black men. If yes, then that is racial bias. I know that too, is hard to determine. I personally think the policy is fine. I also know it can never be evenly implemented. In other words, if I went to Starbucks 10 times and sat at a table waiting for someone else and did not buy anything, I may be asked to leave only one of those times. However, on the one occasion I am asked to leave, I can't complain about the one instance because nine times I got away with it. I am taking up their space without giving them the expected benefit of a purchase.

 

That's why I say that the only question to be determined is the motivation for asking the two gentlemen to leave. If it was because of their ethnicity/skin color, then that is bias, and it is not okay and consequences must ensue.

 

If Starbucks addresses the policy in their sensitivity training, they need only to instruct their employees to make sure your motivation for asking a person to leave is not due to prejudice. I don't think they need to change the policy. There is no iron-clad way to have this policy and ensure it will never be abused by an employee with ulterior motives. I think we have to live with the ambiguity and deal with abuses on a case-by-case basis. There is no perfect world, nor is there perfect people.

No doubt I would. But I also wouldn't refuse to leave.

 

You’d just turn around leave knowing that there isn’t any good reason for you to have to leave?

 

I probably wouldn’t even question it but I’m black so I don’t want to get arrested or shot so I’d leave quickly.

No question in my mind that two high class women would have been treated differently. And as I have said in this thread, I am usually hesitant to blame things on race. But two minutes tells the story more than anything.

 

I don't go to Starbucks very often just because I think they're badly overpriced. Every once in a while when I am at Barnes and Noble I will get a frappucino. The Smores flavor is really good. Their regular coffee is overrated though IMO.

 

Bolded: Yep.

 

I have a hard time believing that every person in this thread wouldn’t question the manager of an establishment if they were being asked to leave for no true reason while waiting to meet someone.

 

I may ask if she/he was serious. I may explain again that I am expecting the arrival of another party soon. But if she/he reiterated that I was to leave, I would either purchase something or leave, depending on how much importance I placed on meeting the person there. That's just me. I generally try to get along.

 

I am not throwing shade on the two men in question because I don't have the history they do and if I thought it was an instance of injustice due to bias, I might be more reticent to comply.

You’d just turn around leave knowing that there isn’t any good reason for you to have to leave?

 

I probably wouldn’t even question it but I’m black so I don’t want to get arrested or shot so I’d leave quickly.

 

If you aren’t buying something, you’re loitering and taking the seating from potential paying customers, while also making the business look busier than they may possibly be, which could also cost business as they may move on to a less busier establishment down the street.

 

I didn’t realize Boyle County had gotten so dangerous.

If you aren’t buying something, you’re loitering and taking the seating from potential paying customers, while also making the business look busier than they may possibly be, which could also cost business as they may move on to a less busier establishment down the street.

 

I didn’t realize Boyle County had gotten so dangerous.

 

 

 

If I am waiting on someone I am more than likely going to purchase something once we are all there together. I was raised that the polite thing to do is to wait to order once everyone has arrived. If I have to purchase something to preserve the seat or keep from getting arrested or shot then I’ll probably pull out my wallet.

 

Well, seeing as how black men are feared all across the country when we are unarmed it doesn’t matter if I am in Boyle County or Paducah. It’s still dangerous.