If we profile then one party will never hear the end of it and one party will scream out racism.

 

Profiling sounds great until YOU get profiled. And how exactly would we profile to find the bad guys? It amazes me that the folks who say they care most about our rights and freedoms are ok with profiling.

Profiling sounds great until YOU get profiled. And how exactly would we profile to find the bad guys? It amazes me that the folks who say they care most about our rights and freedoms are ok with profiling.

 

Im a white guy. I (we) get profiled everytime a little girl goes missing and is found raped and murdered.

The FBI has profiled that the crime is usually committed by a white male.

 

What is wrong with that. It true too.

 

What is wrong with profiling a Middle Eastern guy wanting to rent a truck. How many white or black people have rented trucks and has run over people lately?

 

I see no problem with profiling.

Given the nature of the world we now live in as it pertains to ISIS and other terror groups there are a few givens that we can draw conclusions on.

 

1. They do not like us, nor what we stand for, and will go to great lengths, including killing themselves, to kill any American.

 

2. They pretty much all seem to be of the Islamic faith. Im guessing near 100%.

 

So with that information that I do not think anyone will argue with, what kind of common sense does this "Lottery" Visas make? I know we want to be "fair" with everyone, but stupid we do not want to be. Just a little common sense goes a long way.

This guy passed vetting 7 years ago.

He was radicalized after he got here.

 

Lived under a visa for 7 years here.

So he chose to be radicalized in his 7 years versus citizenized?

Not sure except our surveillance agencies work to infiltrate current avenues such as mosques and circles of influence that may lead to radicalized individuals who are plotting.

 

The truth is that there is no way to "get them all" and there is no way to "Stop them all." It's the tragic truth of our current world.

 

Attacking their churches and/or families with criminal charges if they are only accusations will do more to inflame the radicals IMO.

 

Absolutely agree.

Im a white guy. I (we) get profiled everytime a little girl goes missing and is found raped and murdered.

The FBI has profiled that the crime is usually committed by a white male.

 

What is wrong with that. It true too.

 

What is wrong with profiling a Middle Eastern guy wanting to rent a truck. How many white or black people have rented trucks and has run over people lately?

 

I see no problem with profiling.

 

The FBI coming up with a “profile” of a criminal is different from the profiling we are discussing,or at least what I’m thinking about. You aren’t getting stopped or questioned about every child disappearance that happens, and I can bet with near certainty that type of profiling has ever affected you (or the vast majority of this country) in any way. I’m referring to random stops, or restrictions of freedoms or making people jump through extra hoops because they fit a certain “profile”. This type of profiling is almost always racially based. If you’ve ever experienced this sort of profiling, believe me, you wouldn’t be as gung ho to see this implemented on a widespread, regular basis. Most people calling for profiling, have never been profiled, and are likely never in any danger of ever being profiled.

Lived under a visa for 7 years here.

So he chose to be radicalized in his 7 years versus citizenized?

 

I think so. What does it take to radicalize an individual?

 

Probably dashed dreams.

 

Likely some alienation from culture, dreams, or goals.

 

A sense that the world is upside down and sitting on top of them rather than the other way around.

 

You see all of these things can lead an individual to become radicalized to an extreme view of the situation of their world and it enables them to feel that they have something important to do and are the "change" agent for their world.

 

Now what I've tried to explain above, IMO, fits a lot of these terrorists. It also fits domestic threats of extremists in our own domestic America. Whether they be labeled "Antifa," or "Neo-Nazi" or "White Supremacist."

 

I think with the advent of social media and information, this is escalating on all fronts because people buy propaganda whether it comes from extreme Muslims or extreme bigots. It's an easier road to blame our plights upon some "other" group than look ourselves in the mirror to find our own failures.

So what does the family have to do with that?

 

Our liberties and freedoms are difficult things and can't just be readily jettisoned for those we deem "Unworthy."

 

I already think they have considered the assailant as not afforded Miranda Rights because it was an act of terrorism. I think that's understandable. To now go after his family smacks more of vendetta than justice.

 

Of course you go for his family and friends. Look at the Boston bombing - brothers, San Bernardino shooting - husband and wife. So what does this man’s wife know? What does his mosque know. The same mosque associated with the 9/11 hijackers, btw. This isn’t some lone wolf as some want you to believe.

 

Not sure. But when the argument is made to increase the internal spying due to terrorism - that has predominately come from first of second generation radicalized immigrants - the question has to asked - why not keep the bad people out or kick them out. And if its 'grey' maybe err on suspending the visa or green card.

 

So you want to hold innocent people accountable for the actions of criminals? That's the most absurd thing I've ever seen on here.

 

Who created this?

 

Terror suspect brought 23 relatives into country once he gained visa status. Anybody want to continue to argue against consequences for family members of terrorists?

 

Trump reveals New York suspect brought in 23 relatives

I think so. What does it take to radicalize an individual?

 

Probably dashed dreams.

 

Likely some alienation from culture, dreams, or goals.

 

A sense that the world is upside down and sitting on top of them rather than the other way around.

 

You see all of these things can lead an individual to become radicalized to an extreme view of the situation of their world and it enables them to feel that they have something important to do and are the "change" agent for their world.

 

Now what I've tried to explain above, IMO, fits a lot of these terrorists. It also fits domestic threats of extremists in our own domestic America. Whether they be labeled "Antifa," or "Neo-Nazi" or "White Supremacist."

 

I think with the advent of social media and information, this is escalating on all fronts because people buy propaganda whether it comes from extreme Muslims or extreme bigots. It's an easier road to blame our plights upon some "other" group than look ourselves in the mirror to find our own failures.

 

Thanks, you pretty much just laid out why we need to profile.

Terror suspect brought 23 relatives into country once he gained visa status. Anybody want to continue to argue against consequences for family members of terrorists?

 

Trump reveals New York suspect brought in 23 relatives

 

Unless those relatives are also terrorists, which I'm sure you'll claim they are, it's irrelevant information.

Given the nature of the world we now live in as it pertains to ISIS and other terror groups there are a few givens that we can draw conclusions on.

 

1. They do not like us, nor what we stand for, and will go to great lengths, including killing themselves, to kill any American.

 

2. They pretty much all seem to be of the Islamic faith. Im guessing near 100%.

 

So with that information that I do not think anyone will argue with, what kind of common sense does this "Lottery" Visas make? I know we want to be "fair" with everyone, but stupid we do not want to be. Just a little common sense goes a long way.

 

I agree with you on the "Lottery Visa" program.

 

But can't quite follow the logic of your conclusions.

 

Who is "They?" Everyone who is Muslim? Everyone who comes from a radicalized area of the world?

 

#2 is confusing to me as well. You are correct that almost all of these individuals have been followers of Islam. But what % do they represent of all Muslims? And what's more is our conclusion that every Muslim be denied Visas?

 

I'm asking because if that's what you are saying I'm not sure what path that leads us down. These are difficult times and I agree with your attempts to figure out what we do. (Ending the Lottery approach is the first good step as I see it) But I have a problem labeling every Muslim applicant as ineligible. But I'm also not sure what screening can be done to "prevent" all these attacks through immigration control.

 

Thanks for the input Jesse.

Terror suspect brought 23 relatives into country once he gained visa status. Anybody want to continue to argue against consequences for family members of terrorists?

 

Trump reveals New York suspect brought in 23 relatives

 

I don't see any problem with ending the Lottery Visa system and even the bringing of so many others "under their Visa" acceptance.

 

Again though, are these family members part of the problem?

 

Let me also ask: What do you do with the families of domestic Terrorists like Timothy McVeigh or the Pollard guy in Las Vegas?

Thanks, you pretty much just laid out why we need to profile.

 

So how do you profile what I described? How many employees does the government need to profile the attitudes and the individuals I just mentioned? If you think Big Brother is bad now, just wait and see that cost.

 

I have no problem infiltrating areas, mosques, groups where radicalism and possible terrorism is being spread. It seems to me it worked wonders in the 60's infiltrating the Klan and bringing the Mississippi Murderers to some justice.

 

So how do you profile a person's thoughts?

Unless those relatives are also terrorists, which I'm sure you'll claim they are, it's irrelevant information.

 

As I mentioned a while ago: Was this the same outcry over McVeigh, Roof, Pollard? Or is it only for first generation immigrants?

As I mentioned a while ago: Was this the same outcry over McVeigh, Roof, Pollard? Or is it only for first generation immigrants?

 

Of course not. They weren't Muslim, so it doesn't count.