So what does the family have to do with that?

 

Our liberties and freedoms are difficult things and can't just be readily jettisoned for those we deem "Unworthy."

 

I already think they have considered the assailant as not afforded Miranda Rights because it was an act of terrorism. I think that's understandable. To now go after his family smacks more of vendetta than justice.

 

Of course you go for his family and friends. Look at the Boston bombing - brothers, San Bernardino shooting - husband and wife. So what does this man’s wife know? What does his mosque know. The same mosque associated with the 9/11 hijackers, btw. This isn’t some lone wolf as some want you to believe.

 

Not sure. But when the argument is made to increase the internal spying due to terrorism - that has predominately come from first of second generation radicalized immigrants - the question has to asked - why not keep the bad people out or kick them out. And if its 'grey' maybe err on suspending the visa or green card.

 

So you want to hold innocent people accountable for the actions of criminals? That's the most absurd thing I've ever seen on here.

 

Who created this?

 

I don't see any problem with ending the Lottery Visa system and even the bringing of so many others "under their Visa" acceptance.

 

Again though, are these family members part of the problem?

 

Let me also ask: What do you do with the families of domestic Terrorists like Timothy McVeigh or the Pollard guy in Las Vegas?

 

Pollard and McVeigh did not commit acts of violence to advance an ideology shared by their extended family and mosque members. They do not have extended networks of support (both local and off shore) like Islamists do.

Pollard and McVeigh did not commit acts of violence to advance an ideology shared by their extended family and mosque members. They do not have extended networks of support (both local and off shore) like Islamists do.

 

So all members of your extended family share their same beliefs and ideology? I know mine sure as hell don't.

 

It's ridiculous to think that every Muslim thinks and believes the same sets of beliefs and ideology.

So all members of your extended family share their same beliefs and ideology? I know mine sure as hell don't.

 

It's ridiculous to think that every Muslim thinks and believes the same sets of beliefs and ideology.

 

Do I need to quote the violent mandates of the Quran for you?

Do I need to quote the violent mandates of the Quran for you?

 

You can quote whatever you want.

 

The vast majority of Muslims are non-violent and are definitely not jihadists or radicals.

They are willing to DIE for their cause. They don't fear for anyone or anything. What you propose will have 0 effect.

 

Not to mention that “fear”, while effective in the short term, is rarely a good long term motivator, and usually fosters a more negative attitude in the long run.

Pollard and McVeigh did not commit acts of violence to advance an ideology shared by their extended family and mosque members. They do not have extended networks of support (both local and off shore) like Islamists do.

 

How do we know that?

 

How much digging was done on McVeigh's family background? You really don't see he was pushing his ideology in his bombing of the Murrah Building? Really?

 

Pollard we don't know about yet.

 

Roof? Where do you think his prejudice came from? Did he just wake up and one day decide to kill some African American Church Goers?

 

Dylann Storm Roof, the 21-year-old white man charged with killing nine black parishioners in a storied Charleston, S.C., church last month, attended solidly middle-class, racially integrated schools, grew up with black friends and came from a respected family, his grandfather a well-known local lawyer. But court records suggest that his divorced parents struggled with finances when he was a teenager, with his mother being evicted from her home in 2009 and his father’s once-successful business renovating historic homes falling into debt and closing a few years later.

By the time he was in high school, Mr. Roof was struggling with his classes, attending the ninth grade twice before dropping out. He floated in and out of jobs, took drugs and drank, had run-ins with the police, began reading white supremacist websites and, in the months before the massacre, boasted of wanting to start a race war, friends and investigators say.

 

Dylann Roof’s Past Reveals Trouble at Home and School - The New York Times

 

Now the above kind of reveals what I was mentioning earlier about a life profile that leads to this kind of reaction.

 

But again I ask, since Roof visited and seemed influenced by numerous sites that reflected white supremacy ideology, would you be in favor of going after those sites and creators that influenced him to shoot innocent African-Americans in this act of terror?

There is no moral necessity for presumed innocence for those that are not citizens!

There is no moral necessity for presumed innocence for those that are not citizens!

 

So is that true for any Americans who are abroad on a Visa? They can be readily rounded up and incarcerated by those governments?

So is that true for any Americans who are abroad on a Visa? They can be readily rounded up and incarcerated by those governments?

 

Not incarcerated, deported.

There is no moral necessity for presumed innocence for those that are not citizens!

 

Not even for legally documented immigrants?

Not even for legally documented immigrants?

 

Absolutely. If they are suspected of either supporting terrorism, or, of not reporting on suspicious activity.

Absolutely. If they are suspected of either supporting terrorism, or, of not reporting on suspicious activity.

 

I can get on board with that. I would hope it would be an evidentiary case rather than suspicions based on association, religion or ethnicity.

If we were in a war with a foreign country and 12 special forces soldiers snuck into our country and started blowing up bridges and setting off public explosions and 100's of people died...do we treat them as criminals or as enemy combatants in a war?

 

Same scenario, the country had agents already living here for years undercover with proper credentials. They then start waging war from within, attacking citizens and blowing up bridges...treat them as criminals or as enemy combatants?

Of course not. They weren't Muslim, so it doesn't count.

 

What difference, at this point, does it make?

If we were in a war with a foreign country and 12 special forces soldiers snuck into our country and started blowing up bridges and setting off public explosions and 100's of people died...do we treat them as criminals or as enemy combatants in a war?

 

Same scenario, the country had agents already living here for years undercover with proper credentials. They then start waging war from within, attacking citizens and blowing up bridges...treat them as criminals or as enemy combatants?

 

So is this guy being read Miranda? I heard he wasn’t. So that confuses this to me.