We'll never reach 100% employment. And you can't ignore the fact that many of those receiving assistance ARE working. What do you do about many folks classed as the working poor? Poverty is not always the result of joblessness or unwillingness to work, despite the fact That many believe it is. Especially when families are involved it's exceptionally difficult to change ones status. Coupled with increased automation, and the elimination of "middle level" jobs, this country faces an increased polarization of the job market...jobs at the top, and bottom, but realitively few in between. Those problems aren't and cannot be solved by "tough love".

 

Am I as a taxpayer, responsible for personal decisions not to peruse higher education or a trade skill?

Feds do it every day and no one bats an eye.

 

Do principles matter to anyone any more?

 

Example, I am retired from a large metro fire dept. One night a drunk driver ran a red light and struck one of our ambulances. The drunk driver sues the city and they settle with him stating it was cheaper than going to court!!! How ridiculous!!!

 

You see it daily in the news, stories just like that. Same principle I am talking about here. If you don't do what it takes to stop the abuse, it continues to get worse. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and do the right thing.

 

I'm not saying ignore it, or not do anything about it at all. I dealt with it in my retail life for years. We didn't ignore shoplifting. But you reach a point where you are spending more than you are recovering. That's just wasteful and bad business.

Am I as a taxpayer, responsible for personal decisions not to peruse higher education or a trade skill?

 

In theory, yes, higher education is available to all. However, in acutality, higher education does not guarantee employment. And, for the working poor, they are just making enough to survive day to day...where does one get the extra money and time to pursue higher education. Throw in other obstacles like transportation, poor primary education (resulting in not being prepared for secondary education), and higher education is not always a possibility.

 

Again, we have to have people to work in those lower level jobs. Some aren't equipped mentally, physically, etc, to be able to hold higher level postions. We can't all be executives, bosses, superviors, foremans etc. And much of the time, opportunities to pursure higher level education is a result of who your parents are and where you were born. The better off your parents are, the more likely you are going to be able to take advantage of higher education. As I mentioned before, the middle class, especiallly manufacturing jobs, is being shrunk by automation and other efficiency improvements, which is doing more to a lot to puch people toward, or keep folks in poverty.

 

I guess where we differ is, in my experience, most people aren't choosing poverty.

What's downright annoying is ignoring what you post. I don't write it, you do.

 

You can't say you don't want to ignore it in one breath and say it may or would probably cost more than it is worth to fix in the next.

 

Where I come from we call that talking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

I literally have never said any such thing...

 

I asked how much it would cost. I asked which number would be higher. I just recently asked what you'd be willing to pay to fix the issues. Nowhere did I say it would cost more than it's worth. You can continue trying to tell us what we've said and we'll continue to prove you wrong.

I literally have never said any such thing...

 

I asked how much it would cost. I asked which number would be higher. I just recently asked what you'd be willing to pay to fix the issues. Nowhere did I say it would cost more than it's worth. You can continue trying to tell us what we've said and we'll continue to prove you wrong.

.

 

Like I said, go back and read your posts.

 

You haven't proven anything.

.

 

Like I said, go back and read your posts.

 

You haven't proven anything.

 

I have proven that you continue to try to put words in our mouths. I think you are the one that needs to go back and read my posts.

If it cost you $5,000 a year in taxes to fix the issue, you'd be okay with it?

 

And while you're at it @capt278, you can answer this since you ignored it the first time.

Am I as a taxpayer, responsible for personal decisions not to peruse higher education or a trade skill?

 

Yes. Consider it charity. You seem to be a supporter of that in this thread.

I have proven that you continue to try to put words in our mouths. I think you are the one that needs to go back and read my posts.

 

I have. Your insinuations are evident.

 

Call if what you want. We will disagree on whether you were questioning or insinuating. Plain and simple. I have my stance, which I have made plain, you have yours.

And while you're at it @capt278, you can answer this since you ignored it the first time.

 

Didn't ignore, missed.

 

Sure, if it is actually used to eliminate the fraud and helps keep it eliminated. Better used for that than to send to some other country or feed more abuse that continues to grow.

I have. Your insinuations are evident.

 

Call if what you want. We will disagree on whether you were questioning or insinuating. Plain and simple. I have my stance, which I have made plain, you have yours.

 

I'm not one to insinuate. I say what I want, usually to a fault. But if it makes you feel better to try to bend people's words, have at it.

Didn't ignore, missed.

 

Sure, if it is actually used to eliminate the fraud and helps keep it eliminated. Better used for that than to send to some other country or feed more abuse that continues to grow.

 

Keep the money at home, I agree.

No argument.

 

Cutting spending on the military isn't the answer either.

 

Just want to be clear. Im not advocating cutting the military budget. I'm advocating accountability and wiser spending just as I do in the welfare programs.

A better question is would you be willing to pay $5000 to save $2500. Once you hit diminishing returns, it doesn't matter how much money you throw at a problem.

 

Interesting post, it sure doesnt seem the money we throw at all these social programs is working to fix the problem either.

Interesting post, it sure doesnt seem the money we throw at all these social programs is working to fix the problem either.

 

Agreed we need jobs that entice these people out of social programs.