It would be all great if people put their money where their mouths are. No one wants their tax dollars to fund social aid, but most people are giving just enough to even keep their churches solvent, and nothing extra. If the Church can't receive Federal aid, there is no chance they can fully fund and administer aid programs that the communities are to rely on in lieu of social aid funded by the government. The Church helps a lot of people who fall through the cracks.

 

By reducing the funding for federal aide while increasing the tax deductions for charitable aid, people would come to depend upon faith based organizations in general. The evolution of government as a social affairs has moved dependence from God to Government. Society has declined as a result.

By reducing the funding for federal aide while increasing the tax deductions for charitable aid, people would come to depend upon faith based organizations in general. The evolution of government as a social affairs has moved dependence from God to Government. Society has declined as a result.

 

So, those who don't need aid get tax breaks if they give to charity? It's not happening. People still won't give. Let's be honest, brutally honest...charitable giving is way down the list for most people. And there are deductions now.

Poor people are the problem...got it. :lol2:

 

Anybody hear about the plane we spent $400 billion on, and it still don't work?

 

Nobody is saying that. We are saying people abusing and gaming the system are the problem.

 

As to your second point, how about all the money we send to countries overseas? Shouldn't we take care of our own first?

Nobody is saying that. We are saying people abusing and gaming the system are the problem.

 

As to your second point, how about all the money we send to countries overseas? Shouldn't we take care of our own first?

 

People gaming the system only bothers those of us who go to work every day. The powers that be don't care. If they did care they would expand the programs to police those systems.

Any politician that mentions reform is pandering. Similar to any politician that mentions the national debt in my eyes.

 

You get no arguments here. If I remember correctly we send 40 +billion overseas a year. Of course that's ten years of foreign aid spent on that one plane. Our military industry is the most bloated and wasteful spending program.

People gaming the system only bothers those of us who go to work every day. The powers that be don't care. If they did care they would expand the programs to police those systems.

Any politician that mentions reform is pandering. Similar to any politician that mentions the national debt in my eyes.

 

You get no arguments here. If I remember correctly we send 40 +billion overseas a year. Of course that's ten years of foreign aid spent on that one plane. Our military industry is the most bloated and wasteful spending program.

 

A lot of folks don't want to hear this, but...

Nobody is saying that. We are saying people abusing and gaming the system are the problem.

 

As to your second point, how about all the money we send to countries overseas? Shouldn't we take care of our own first?

 

So you don't believe that companies aren't scamming the government with contracts they don't deliver on? That the military budgets aren't wasteful like other government budgets?

By reducing the funding for federal aide while increasing the tax deductions for charitable aid, people would come to depend upon faith based organizations in general. The evolution of government as a social affairs has moved dependence from God to Government. Society has declined as a result.

 

I don't believe there was ever a time when the churches took care of all the impoverished and incapable. There was a day of poor houses, orphanages, mental institutions but most were funded by local, state and even federal governments.

 

Pioneer I believe your premise is noble but not practical and I really don't think there's a past precedent that dealt with the numbers of people in need like now. The Depression would be exhibit A. I think the cost is greater than being solved just by handing it over to private agencies and churches.

As to the point most of the thread is arguing, 70 billion dollars is being poured into the food production economy from the federal govt and probably as much or more from the states. Farmers and major food corporations don't care about that 1/5 scammers, so neither do our leaders.

People gaming the system only bothers those of us who go to work every day. The powers that be don't care. If they did care they would expand the programs to police those systems.

Any politician that mentions reform is pandering. Similar to any politician that mentions the national debt in my eyes.

 

You get no arguments here. If I remember correctly we send 40 +billion overseas a year. Of course that's ten years of foreign aid spent on that one plane. Our military industry is the most bloated and wasteful spending program.

 

No doubt prices are bloated on military equipment.

 

I do do believe that a strong military equals a strong America.

I don't believe there was ever a time when the churches took care of all the impoverished and incapable. There was a day of poor houses, orphanages, mental institutions but most were funded by local, state and even federal governments.

 

Pioneer I believe your premise is noble but not practical and I really don't think there's a past precedent that dealt with the numbers of people in need like now. The Depression would be exhibit A. I think the cost is greater than being solved just by handing it over to private agencies and churches.

 

In an earlier post, I pointed out that poverty rates are essentially unchanged since the late 90's. To continue the same policies in the face of repeated failure is insanity! Communities of faith are better suited to determine the line between charity and dependence than is government.

The poverty rate is basically unchanged since 1960. It was over 22% at one point in the 1950's, so it has been lower over the past 55 years than it was in the 1950's. What was welfare and other government programming like in the 1950's? Were we relying on charity in the 1950's when the rate was much higher?

 

Poverty has fluctuated within about a 4 percent range over the last 50 plus years. That tells me abuse of "the system" has not increased. It hasn't decreased either. Is it possible there are 11-15% of the population that are not capable of escaping poverty?

 

This is from the link where I got my stats:

 

In the late 1950s, the poverty rate for all Americans was 22.4 percent, or 39.5 million individuals. These numbers declined steadily throughout the 1960s, reaching a low of 11.1 percent, or 22.9 million individuals, in 1973. Over the next decade, the poverty rate fluctuated between 11.1 and 12.6 percent, but it began to rise steadily again in 1980. By 1983, the number of poor individuals had risen to 35.3 million individuals, or 15.2 percent.

 

For the next ten years, the poverty rate remained above 12.8 percent, increasing to 15.1 percent, or 39.3 million individuals, by 1993. The rate declined for the remainder of the decade, to 11.3 percent by 2000. From 2000 to 2004 it rose each year to 12.8 in 2004. The poverty rate continued to increase, peaking at 15.1 percent in 2010, the highest poverty rate since 1993. The poverty rate has remained relatively stable for the past 4 years.

 

Since the late 1960s, the poverty rate for people over 65 has fallen dramatically. The poverty rate for children has historically been somewhat higher than the overall poverty rate. The poverty rate for people in households headed by single women is significantly higher than the overall poverty rate.

 

National Poverty Center | University of Michigan

No doubt prices are bloated on military equipment.

 

I do do believe that a strong military equals a strong America.

 

But why can't we investigate the scams here so we have even more to spend on the military?

 

Waste in military doesn't make us a stronger America.

In an earlier post, I pointed out that poverty rates are essentially unchanged since the late 90's. To continue the same policies in the face of repeated failure is insanity! Communities of faith are better suited to determine the line between charity and dependence than is government.

 

I would refer back to my earlier examples. The vast majority of churches don't belong to a centralized organization and are ill equipped to handle that chore.

 

I didn't say keep the same routine. I believe we discussed an investigation arm of social services.

 

Faith communities have neither the financial resources or infrastructure to implement the kind of assistance needed.

But why can't we investigate the scams here so we have even more to spend on the military?

 

Waste in military doesn't make us a stronger America.

 

No argument.

 

Cutting spending on the military isn't the answer either.

Again, does the cost matter if it gets rid of the fraud?

 

As someone who works with finances and $$ on a daily basis...Yes, cost absolutely matters.

 

If the benefit of doing something doesn't outweigh the cost, there is no point in doing it.