As someone who works with finances and $$ on a daily basis...Yes, cost absolutely matters.

 

If the benefit of doing something doesn't outweigh the cost, there is no point in doing it.

 

So we ignore the fraud and enable others to do the same.

 

Thats part of what is wrong with the system. IMHO this is nothing more than enabling criminals and abuse of the system.

 

Apathy at its finest.

So we ignore the fraud and enable others to do the same.

 

Thats part of what is wrong with the system. IMHO this is nothing more than enabling criminals and abuse of the system.

 

Apathy at its finest.

 

There you go putting words in people's mouths again.

 

Never said to ignore it.

 

Let's say there's $10B in fraudulent social program money going out a year. Now let's say to clean that up and reduce that down to about $1B because you'll never eliminate it all, it'll cost $12B a year. Sure, now the people that truly need help are the ones getting it, but now everyone's taxes have gone up because we have to pay to police it better. I'm not okay with that. I want my contribution to social programs to be as minimal as possible.

As someone who works with finances and $$ on a daily basis...Yes, cost absolutely matters.

 

If the benefit of doing something doesn't outweigh the cost, there is no point in doing it.

 

Shame on you for condoning the fraud. Smh.

Shame on you for condoning the fraud. Smh.

 

If you are not for doing what it takes to get rid of it, then it is akin to condoiing it.

 

Bottom line.

There you go putting words in people's mouths again.

 

Never said to ignore it.

 

Let's say there's $10B in fraudulent social program money going out a year. Now let's say to clean that up and reduce that down to about $1B because you'll never eliminate it all, it'll cost $12B a year. Sure, now the people that truly need help are the ones getting it, but now everyone's taxes have gone up because we have to pay to police it better. I'm not okay with that. I want my contribution to social programs to be as minimal as possible.

 

You keep saying I'm putting words in your mouth, I don't write your posts, you do.

 

I'm fine with paying a bit more to ensure those that truly need it, get it.

 

You cant complain about the abuse and just throw up your hands and say it would cost more than it's worth to fix it.

You keep saying I'm putting words in your mouth, I don't write your posts, you do.

 

I'm fine with paying a bit more to ensure those that truly need it, get it.

 

You cant complain about the abuse and just throw up your hands and say it would cost more than it's worth to fix it.

 

Show me where I've complained about it.

 

And that's fine that you're cool with paying more (or at least you claim to be). I'm not.

 

And just because I'm not wanting to spend more money than it already costs to fix it, doesn't mean I'm okay with the fraud. It simply means I don't want the government taking any more of my hard-earned money than they already do. I'm never going to be okay with that.

There you go putting words in people's mouths again.

 

Never said to ignore it.

 

Let's say there's $10B in fraudulent social program money going out a year. Now let's say to clean that up and reduce that down to about $1B because you'll never eliminate it all, it'll cost $12B a year. Sure, now the people that truly need help are the ones getting it, but now everyone's taxes have gone up because we have to pay to police it better. I'm not okay with that. I want my contribution to social programs to be as minimal as possible.

 

I want my contributions to social programs to be EFFECTIVE! We have the same poverty rates today as we had in the early 90's. As a society, we need to recognize that sometimes tough love is necessary and the plug needs to be pulled. Social giving needs to transition into employment and independent living. If that means more pain has to be experienced, so be it!

If you are not for doing what it takes to get rid of it, then it is akin to condoiing it.

 

Bottom line.

 

Bottom line. :lol2:

 

For the 300th time in this thread, nobody is ignoring or doesn't want to fix the issues. It has simply been questioned as to how we'd get it done and how much it would cost. You continue to grasp for something that isn't there and at this point it's downright annoying.

If you are not for doing what it takes to get rid of it, then it is akin to condoiing it.

 

Bottom line.

 

If it cost you $5,000 a year in taxes to fix the issue, you'd be okay with it?

I want my contributions to social programs to be EFFECTIVE! We have the same poverty rates today as we had in the early 90's. As a society, we need to recognize that sometimes tough love is necessary and the plug needs to be pulled. Social giving needs to transition into employment and independent living. If that means more pain has to be experienced, so be it!

 

What percent of the population do you think we could get the poverty rate down to?

 

Do you believe there is some percentage of the population that is incapable of escaping poverty?

If it cost you $5,000 a year in taxes to fix the issue, you'd be okay with it?

 

A better question is would you be willing to pay $5000 to save $2500. Once you hit diminishing returns, it doesn't matter how much money you throw at a problem.

Bottom line. :lol2:

 

For the 300th time in this thread, nobody is ignoring or doesn't want to fix the issues. It has simply been questioned as to how we'd get it done and how much it would cost. You continue to grasp for something that isn't there and at this point it's downright annoying.

 

What's downright annoying is ignoring what you post. I don't write it, you do.

 

You can't say you don't want to ignore it in one breath and say it may or would probably cost more than it is worth to fix in the next.

 

Where I come from we call that talking out of both sides of your mouth.

A better question is would you be willing to pay $5000 to save $2500. Once you hit diminishing returns, it doesn't matter how much money you throw at a problem.

 

Feds do it every day and no one bats an eye.

 

Do principles matter to anyone any more?

 

Example, I am retired from a large metro fire dept. One night a drunk driver ran a red light and struck one of our ambulances. The drunk driver sues the city and they settle with him stating it was cheaper than going to court!!! How ridiculous!!!

 

You see it daily in the news, stories just like that. Same principle I am talking about here. If you don't do what it takes to stop the abuse, it continues to get worse. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and do the right thing.

What percent of the population do you think we could get the poverty rate down to?

 

Do you believe there is some percentage of the population that is incapable of escaping poverty?

 

There will always be those who choose poverty. Lets not reinforce it by providing aide indiscriminately. Many people need to feel the pain of irresponsible decision making before choosing responsibility.

I want my contributions to social programs to be EFFECTIVE! We have the same poverty rates today as we had in the early 90's. As a society, we need to recognize that sometimes tough love is necessary and the plug needs to be pulled. Social giving needs to transition into employment and independent living. If that means more pain has to be experienced, so be it!

 

We'll never reach 100% employment. And you can't ignore the fact that many of those receiving assistance ARE working. What do you do about many folks classed as the working poor? Poverty is not always the result of joblessness or unwillingness to work, despite the fact That many believe it is. Especially when families are involved it's exceptionally difficult to change ones status. Coupled with increased automation, and the elimination of "middle level" jobs, this country faces an increased polarization of the job market...jobs at the top, and bottom, but realitively few in between. Those problems aren't and cannot be solved by "tough love".