A ton more playoff teams, 4 more state champion attendees...

 

it IS watered down.

 

 

I second that! way to many teams making the playoffs with the new system.

The whole "watered down" point is getting a little old now...

Old, perhaps, but still accurate.

How come we never hear the "watered down" arguement in baseball, basketball, soccer, volleyball, and every other sport that allows EVERY team into the postseason. I don't remember seeing this one in the BB forum in March...

The "watered down" argument isn't applied in terms of how many teams make it the postseason. It's applied in terms of how many teams are competing for the top prize.

The only people who appear to be against six classes are from schools that traditionally win titles every year or who at least advance to the final four every year. It's almost as if they want the titles all to themselves and don't want any other team to hold the distinction of being a state champion, as if it somehow diminishes state titles they've won in the past. Teams are still going to have to beat Beechwood and Mayfield in 1a, Newport Catholic and Owensboro Catholic in 2a, Russell and Belfry in 3a, Lexington Catholic and Boyle County in 4a, Bowling Green, Covington Catholic, and Highlands in 5a, and Trinity and St. x in 6a. All of those teams have appeared in the state finals in the past few years. If teams had to beat them in their current classes to be state champion, how come it isn't considered "watered down"? Every class has 3-5 teams that are considered traditional powers in the current alignment. If a team beats any of those to win a state title, I don't consider the accomplishment diminished in any way. Heaven forbid a school from outside a metropolitan area be called a state champion.

I wish I knew. I was a little surprised. Beechwood has never been one to shy away from the bigger dogs. My understanding is that in two years, schools can request a change. Maybe they are just waitng to see how things work out as is.

 

:thumb: Just curious and I for one don't feel Beechwood should feel like they must move up a Class. There size says they are Class A. If that is where they wish to stay then by all means they should. Anyway if there is ever the chance we might be able to beat you guys again then I want it to count for something..

Aren't there only like 8 states that have 4 or fewer champions in football now? Do the other states with more than 4 champs feel like it's watered down? I would think that it will be better with more teams in. I know the "elite" will go on being the "elite" wherever they end up, because that is what they do. What's wrong with a few more teams getting to feel what some of the perinial powers feel almost annually? If a team like, say, Pineville or Lynn Camp ever won a state title, do you not think it would be something special to them? I really don't think the kids will care if they are the 1A or 9A champ as long as they get the ring and the right to be called champs. The way that the alignment is set up, everyone would have to get through somebody to win it all, anyway. There are no all cupcake classes. The only ones that would look down on these so called "watered down" champions have forgotten what it was all about, anyway. Will any team in any class turn down a championship because they think it's watered down? I'll bet they don't. They'll line up, play and hold up the trophy when the game is over.

The only people who appear to be against six classes are from schools that traditionally win titles every year or who at least advance to the final four every year. It's almost as if they want the titles all to themselves and don't want any other team to hold the distinction of being a state champion, as if it somehow diminishes state titles they've won in the past. Teams are still going to have to beat Beechwood and Mayfield in 1a, Newport Catholic and Owensboro Catholic in 2a, Russell and Belfry in 3a, Lexington Catholic and Boyle County in 4a, Bowling Green, Covington Catholic, and Highlands in 5a, and Trinity and St. x in 6a. All of those teams have appeared in the state finals in the past few years. If teams had to beat them in their current classes to be state champion, how come it isn't considered "watered down"? Every class has 3-5 teams that are considered traditional powers in the current alignment. If a team beats any of those to win a state title, I don't consider the accomplishment diminished in any way. Heaven forbid a school from outside a metropolitan area be called a state champion.

 

These teams have multiple championships. (3 or more) What "outside" teams do you see jumping up and knocking them off because there are now two more classes.

 

CLASS A - Beechwood (10), Mayfield (7), Paris (3), Pikeville (3)

 

CLASS 2A - Danville (10), Bardstown (4), Corbin (3), Ft Campbell (3), Ft Knox (3)

 

CLASS 3A - Breathitt Co (3), Russellville (3)

 

CLASS 4A - Boyle Co (5)

 

CLASS 5A - Highlands (16), Covington Catholic (5)

 

CLASS 6A - Trinity (16), St. Xavier (10), Male (5)

 

IMVHO...I believe the new system will make it even easier for the traditional powers to win because they have LESS competition. Beechwood & Mayfield don't have to worry about Danville anymore...Boyle and LexCath can ignore Highlands and CovCath and as you can see, there are many more examples. My vote...watered down.

How come we never hear the "watered down" arguement in baseball, basketball, soccer, volleyball, and every other sport that allows EVERY team into the postseason. I don't remember seeing this one in the BB forum in March...

 

Because there is only one state champion. Not six. If there were six classes in baseball, volleyball, soccer, basketball I would agree that those sports were candidates for "watered down" also.

 

If Track and Cross-Country were to go from three to six classes then they would be watered down also.

It will be like going 6-5 and winning the Motor City Bowl. Who cares?

I see both sides of the argument. This college football analogy got me thinking though. There are plenty of people who still talk about the year the 'Cats went to the Peach Bowl(I have no clue, because I don't really like UK). Would that have been possible if they hadn't expanded the bowl games outside of the traditional games? No. Is it good for the game? In most cases, yes. Like it or not, this is happening everywhere. NFL goes to wild card system, MLB goes to wild card, NCAA continually expands the number of bowls, H.S. teams continually host more "bowl" games, NCAA BB goes to play-in games and talks of adding teams to the tourney.

 

Personally, I kind of enjoyed the days when you had to win a pennant to have a chance at the World Series. I know it was a big deal when I was in school to get "invited" to play in a H.S. bowl game(there were only a handful at that time). It kind of irks me that some people want their tradition and for it to mean something on one hand, but on the other they cheer for events like the ones listed above.

 

Think of what would happen if we never changed our "tradition" and made it more "meaningful". Take a program like the University of Louisville. I've got news for you Card fans, without the GMAC bowl, Motor City Bowl, etc., etc. your program wouldn't be where it is today. In fact, we'd have the "traditonal" powers, always playing in the games that meant anything, never really letting anyone else get their foot in the door. Anything that gives more people a chance to cheer for the sport of football, I'm all for, there are far too many young kids nowadays that choose not to play anyhow. I say, let 'em all in. If you think it won't mean as much, as the UK fans how much that peach bowl means to them, or the UL fans how much it means to have a top notch program. Without postseason expansion, none would have ever happened.

Just read a few more posts and I had to comment on one more thing. Ever notice how the "traditional" powers are always against change? I remember when they decided to do away with the polls(for championships) in college football, and the outcry from Mich, OSU, Nebraska, etc. Why? So that teams like Utah, Louisville, etc. couldn't break into their "elite" fraternity. I remember Yankee fans just bashing the idea of a wild card. Why would they want it to change, they've done fine with things the way they have been. If your making the "watered down" argument, I suggest we go back to 1 class. Then we'll only have a 3 BIG teams making the "watered down" claim. Then if you beat them, it will really mean something, as opposed to that paltry title you've been playing for. :lol:

I dont understand this. If it is all about the kids then what is wrong with giving more of them a chance to play in a playoff game and more importantly a chance to win a state title? It makes no sense to me to say we have the kids best interest involved but still yet we dont want to give 100 more young men a chance to be a state champ.

I tried to address this with a thread a couple of weeks ago but my schedule has kept me from coming back to follow up on it.

 

So I will just go right to the conclusions.

 

This system is not watered down and here is why.

 

In all classes, there have been a very small number of teams with a legitimate shot at winning the title each year. In A, there are 4, in 2A there are 6-7, in 3A there are 4-5, and in 4A there is only 3.

 

Other teams have an outside shot, but these teams are the only ones who have a real chance. And that is not going to change, as a matter of fact it might even be worse because under this new system each class may become even more exclulsive. How? Because those 15-20 teams are going to be spread among 6 classes instead of 4, leaving less favorites in each class and making them even more elite. For instance in A, now there are going to be 2 big time favorites instead of 4.

 

Additionally, the playoff format will not change and you will still have to win 5 playoff games to take home the hardware. That is true under both systems regardless of how many teams are in the class. Less teams will be staying home, but it will not make the playoff paths easier by any noticable amount. The early rounds will still be against your district opponents (I assume) and the later rounds will be against the best in the class.

 

So the playoff games themselves will be a bit different makeup, but the semifinals will still be dominated by the same old faces and I'm having a hard time seeing how that translated into a watered down system.

 

Bottome line, it will not be eaiser to win a title under this system and the additional 2 titles will still be won by one of the 15-20 favorites.

 

If what you say is true, then why add two more classes to let the rich get even richer? Let those same 15-20 schools scrap for four titles instead of six, at least then it means a little more.

 

Personally, I think it waters down, actually it poisons Ky. football, from a competitive standpoint. It's simple math, the fewer teams you have to compete with, the lower the bar is set.

I dont understand this. If it is all about the kids then what is wrong with giving more of them a chance to play in a playoff game and more importantly a chance to win a state title? It makes no sense to me to say we have the kids best interest involved but still yet we dont want to give 100 more young men a chance to be a state champ.

 

If thats the case EVERY sport needs to be divided up into 6 classes so there can be more chances for kids to win a state championship. The sweet 16 needs to be axed ASAP.:laugh: There needs to be 6 state champions in Basketball now.

The only people who appear to be against six classes are from schools that traditionally win titles every year or who at least advance to the final four every year. It's almost as if they want the titles all to themselves and don't want any other team to hold the distinction of being a state champion, as if it somehow diminishes state titles they've won in the past.

 

 

You dont see X or T crying about one class in basketball do you? Everybody wants a trophy and they want it the easiest way possible.

This is HIGH SCHOOL athletics and it should be about what the kids think and not the adult fans.

 

Yeah, but as long as the KHSAA is in charge of high school athletics in KY it will always be about the adult fans and even more so THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR.

 

If it were truly a decision about the kids, then ALL other sports would be watered down to 6 classes also, even the revered "Sweet Sixteen".