June 13, 201610 yr Inform innocents to get down, locate target, aim, and shoot...you'll be surprised how many people can handle that responsibility. More plausible than you think! But hey I'm a glass half full type guy... How do you expect to inform innocents to get down when music is blaring, lights are going crazy, and it's complete chaos? It's not about optimism, it's about logistics. Unless you have multiple armed guards at every door, as well as sprinkled throughout a large establishment, you'd have no way of stopping a mass shooter without a lot of damage. Paying a couple off duty police officers to hang out at the door of your place isn't going to stop someone with the desire to do some serious damage, I wouldn't think, because they could easily be on them before they even realize it. And we are only talking bars/night clubs. Wouldn't be difficult at all for someone to take out 50 at Oktoberfest/Taste of Cincy/Opening Day/any Bengals pre-party at the Banks or outdoor concert.
June 13, 201610 yr Agreed, and no you are not off base. An off duty officer is going to cost you $35-37 per hour, that is the rate for off duty Cincy PD officers. There are too many places that are soft targets that the police won't be able to be everywhere, so many places will need to realize that they need the proper security. BUT, most places don't see the need for armed security, it's the "there hasn't been an issue here, so why do I need to pay for security?" Also, many if not most night clubs only want to hire bouncer type people who have no idea how to do the job correctly, they want to hire 6'6" 400lbs guys to show muscle/strength, but look at such groups of people as the Secret Service, or military personnel, they are almost always what one may consider normal size. I understand what you're saying, but from a practical standpoint those big burly guys take care of the problem 99.9 percent of the time. No bar owner can adequately prepare for a scenario such as Orlando. Not cost-effectively, anyway.
June 13, 201610 yr That's why the right to carry is so important. Noone is going to save you but you. First responders will be 10 min too late. While I agree with you, it's important, I have a really hard time thinking that it's a good idea to have guns and alcohol mixed together in bars/clubs.
June 13, 201610 yr Author Is it true that even had this shooter been known to be on ISIS websites and had been put on the no fly list that the govt could not preclude him from buying a gun?
June 13, 201610 yr And the rest think they're Rambo. That's always been an issue with me. Which bring me to my next topic which I don't even want to get into. The fact that this guy could buy an assault rifle with no vetting process or waiting period of any kind is insanity. There is no reason it's that easy buy one. Period.
June 13, 201610 yr While I agree with you, it's important, I have a really hard time thinking that it's a good idea to have guns and alcohol mixed together in bars/clubs. All I see out of that are stupid OK Corral shootouts by a bunch of idiots buoyed by 12-ounce courage, proclaiming "It's my right!" Just dumb.
June 13, 201610 yr Is it true that even had this shooter been known to be on ISIS websites and had been put on the no fly list that the govt could not preclude him from buying a gun? We can't talk about this shooting and its repurcussions intelligently and avoid politics being brought into it. I wish it were otherwise.
June 13, 201610 yr And the rest think they're Rambo. That's always been an issue with me. In Ohio it's 20 hours of training to be an armed guard.
June 13, 201610 yr Even if he were not able to buy the guns legally, some one who is determined to kill will get the guns illegally. Probably cheaper and easier. Gun control doesn't stop a killer. People who shoot back do.
June 13, 201610 yr Reports of multiple gunmen from eyewitnesses. Comments on doors being held shut. Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet
June 13, 201610 yr I understand what you're saying, but from a practical standpoint those big burly guys take care of the problem 99.9 percent of the time. No bar owner can adequately prepare for a scenario such as Orlando. Not cost-effectively, anyway. It's also those big burly guys who end up causing their employers being hit with big lawsuits too. One doesn't need to be 6'6" and very heavy to do a job correctly.
June 13, 201610 yr It's also those big burly guys who end up causing their employers being hit with big lawsuits too. One doesn't need to be 6'6" and very heavy to do a job correctly. I'm a lot less worried about those burly guys getting their employers hit with lawsuits than I am the wannabe MMA guys who sign on to be a bouncer for the explicit purpose of testing out their scrapping skillz. Those jackasses cause far more problems.
June 13, 201610 yr Being a bouncer is really like the quote Roadhouse.......be nice until it is time to not be nice.
June 13, 201610 yr Check out @Rickyftw's Tweet: RickyFTW on Twitter: "This is haunting... President Obama responding to a Pro-Gun Advocate just last week... wow. https://t.co/bNHce8ZuHb"
June 13, 201610 yr How do you expect to inform innocents to get down when music is blaring, lights are going crazy, and it's complete chaos? It's not about optimism, it's about logistics. Unless you have multiple armed guards at every door, as well as sprinkled throughout a large establishment, you'd have no way of stopping a mass shooter without a lot of damage. Paying a couple off duty police officers to hang out at the door of your place isn't going to stop someone with the desire to do some serious damage, I wouldn't think, because they could easily be on them before they even realize it. And we are only talking bars/night clubs. Wouldn't be difficult at all for someone to take out 50 at Oktoberfest/Taste of Cincy/Opening Day/any Bengals pre-party at the Banks or outdoor concert. I'm "optimistic" a greater security presence would deter and fear of quick retribution by plain clothes trained personnel ( whatever form they take: police, military, retired police or military ) would prevent similar acts of atrocity down the road. Sorry if my glass half full comment came off as glib! And with confidence I can assure you that in Greater Cincinnati there are plenty of patrons packing whether you like it or not. A terrorist with an ar-15 is going to receive fire quickly. Many churches already have staff who carry...and yes I'm a proponent of schools having a select few staff and teachers who carry. Evil is evil anyway we cut it...we need to be more on the offensive and shore up our defense as well! More guns in the right hands helps the defense and more surveillance and barriers to obtaining weapons aids the offense. Eliminating radical jihadists and radical islamic ideology that feeds the lunatics willing to die for it is something we may never be able to stop. But I really like the idea of taking the battle to them overseas vs fighting that battle in our country...
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.