Tough to do away with race completely when you have BET, Black Miss America, Black Music Awards, black churches, yada yada yada. Help me understand how that helps the situation. For the record I don't give a hoot about any of that but if just strikes me as odd.

Before any education or jobs program can be created, you have to address the idea of racial privledge.

 

There are too many studies and experiences out there that cite education in predominantly minority areas as being culturally biased and job programs that didn't fit the bill in terms of delivering outcomes promised due to bias, prejudice and flat out corruption.

 

Here is the thing, you want minority buy-in for socioeconomic programs, right? You want trust from minorities in these programs, no? We would agree that the programs would work the best if we have minority buy-in from the beginning, no?

 

Minorities are telling you that before we can address those needs, we must address the divide created by racial privilege, whether real or contrived. If that issue isn't addressed, you don't get the buy-in from the groups these programs are designed to help. No buy-in means the program fails. The moment there is a hiccup, you allow the racial privledge p.o.v. to rear its head. Long term buy-in means perspectives must be heard and addressed.

 

You want to create a job program for minorities, there had better be people that can eloquently speak to the issues of racial divide that minorities know are real- and that person had better look like me, represent my interests and address the issues head on.

 

So a program that offers better education and jobs isn't good enough ? Again the problem with the entire emphasis on the concept of white privilege.

 

I'm focusing on issues of substance that will have tangible results on urban communities.

 

Stating like you have that white privilege is the #1 problem in this country is crutch and a straw man's argument.

 

You don't win over hearts and minds with words and sociology malarkey. You win them over with substance.

 

What was the line give a man a fish feed him for a day , teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime.

 

That's what I'm talking about issues of substance.

I think that you can see that I recognize white privilege as being real.

 

By pointing out that all whites are not treated equally is not an attempt to devalue the plea of blacks that white privilege exist, and is a significant issue.

 

It's just me trying to point out that all whites do not fall under that category of being privileged, viewed as, or treated as such, so a blanket statement that all whites are privileged would be inaccurate, but I'm still not saying that white privilege does not exist, but it's not as top to bottom with white people as some would like to suggest.

 

In some cases both the white and black profiling that exists is indeed warranted.

 

If it looks like a duck, and acts like a duck, it's probably a duck.

 

Please tell me that you do see undesired behavior coming from both white and black people.

 

You didn't say this, but please also tell me that you don't believe that all of the problems that black people suffer are due to white people. If so, that would severely be allowing some people to act with no responsibility for their own actions, and also severely disrupt the possibility of moving forward in search of a solution.

 

If that misconception continues to be perpetrated then we as a society will forever have a hard time correcting our racial problems.

 

When white people out of bad behavior find themselves in jail or endless trouble related to it, what race do they blame for it.? People would laugh in their face if they were to blame it on blacks, however some blacks with their backs against the wall can shamelessly and knee-jerkingly start rooting for all the reasons for their hardships being attributed to how the white man has kept them down. Hogwash...comes a time that all people of all colors face the music and take responsibility for their own actions. There again if not the discussion and solutions remain elusive.

 

Personally I don't identify myself with any race.

 

I suppose that I'm white just because I am and would have to say so if asked if filling out a form, but besides that I'm just B-Ball-fan.

 

I know that this is never likely to happen, but I wouldn't mind it if the world got over race completely and just identified with being living persons among the human race and just leveled the playing field, and quit being preoccupied with the color of each other's skin.

 

Beyond that, biologically in general we are all just the same, with the same internal organs that keep us alive.

 

When it comes to our character then it's got a lot to do with either the good or bad influences in our lives and the choices we make accordingly.

 

Wouldn't it be swell if the message was echoed and heard throughout the land to pay each other with mutual respect and that somehow all of humanity adhered to that?

 

Wishful thinking I suppose, but still not a bad thought.

 

Every minority doesn't view racial privledge as the reason for negative outcomes. Minorities acknowledge that it exists and the most successful people find ways to rise above. Just because some minorities are able to do so doesn't mean that systems within our country aren't broken, however.

 

We are on a sports site- The Rooney Rule is an example of truly examining a broken system starting from the idea that racial privledge exists and creating a more functional system that is supported by minorities.

 

We don't have to agree on every point, B-Ball, but I do feel our sentiment is similar and you are coming from a place of respect- which is all that any human being asks for.

So a program that offers better education and jobs isn't good enough ? Again the problem with the entire emphasis on the concept of white privilege.

 

I'm focusing on issues of substance that will have tangible results on urban communities.

 

Stating like you have that white privilege is the #1 problem in this country is crutch and a straw man's argument.

 

You don't win over hearts and minds with words and sociology malarkey. You win them over with substance.

 

What was the line give a man a fish feed him for a day , teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime.

 

That's what I'm talking about issues of substance.

 

 

Why, as a minority, should a person believe in a system created to fix a problem that is run by the same people that the person deemed ran the corrupted original system?

 

Maybe trust could be developed if we start from a discussion point based in mutual respect, but when the perspective held by minorities is deemed to be beneath the group that is supposed to be a partner, how do you expect to develop trust?

 

If it was so easy to create these successful education and employment programs for impoverished minorities, it would have been done by minds greater than ours already. One of the struggles is developing trust. Trust can't be developed with dismissive attitudes toward points of view.

 

Every successful program is rooted in trust. Positive relationships breed successful results. There is no getting there without getting past our hang ups. The only way to get past those hang ups is to address them head on, together. Respect will breed that success, which means everyone needs to address there preconceptions and attitudes and clear the air on these things first, then we can get to the work of successful racial relations in the U.S.

Sorry B-Ball, but the white guy with ink crawling up his neck and face that is profiled wasn't born that way. He decided to look like that and put himself in a position to be profiled. Apples and anchovies...

Sorry B-Ball, but the white guy with ink crawling up his neck and face that is profiled wasn't born that way. He decided to look like that and put himself in a position to be profiled. Apples and anchovies...

 

Good valid point... and not really striving to prove otherwise...

 

...but often is the case in the white low income inner city experience is the ever present influences within their underprivileged circumstances to make doing something like tattooing one's neck because of the perception that it is so street and so cool, whereas the consideration that most sensible people might ponder about their employment chances and/or being profiled is not even likely to be a consideration for one whose first and foremost intent is to look cool by his pier's standards.

 

All shortsighted choices culminating from the more powerful influence of the low income white experience that helps contribute to stupid decisions.

 

But yes...at the end of the day...like you said... He decided to look like that and put himself in a position to be profiled.

There have been very few threads in my history of BGP that I'm at a loss for a reply to some of the posts. This one is that.

 

It's best to just stay silent and watch.

It's best to just stay silent and watch.

 

And learn.

It's best to just stay silent and watch.

 

And learn.

 

Haven't both of you posted multiple times in this thread?

Haven't both of you posted multiple times in this thread?

 

I said I'm done talking about racial issues on BGP. I never said I was done posting. Two different things.

I said I'm done talking about racial issues on BGP. I never said I was done posting. Two different things.

 

Gotcha, I thought you meant it was best to just listen. It seemed a little late for that.

Gotcha, I thought you meant it was best to just listen. It seemed a little late for that.

 

Agreed.

Lol your so funny when it comes to this topic. You want to come off as a sensitive person but in reality you are a perfect case of white guilt.

 

Following that thought...it is interesting to me to see many of those who make their money off of sports be so "sensitive" to the plight of minorities...while once the players playing days are over, or the person falls on hard time, these same people turn their backs on them. Not saying that's the case here, but I understand it would be bad for business to have an honest discussion about it.

Nail on the head here.

 

I gave up on hoping we'll get there about a year ago. I still fight the fight because I am stubborn but too many people want to justify racism these days and too many people do what you just stated, rule the black perspective invalid.

 

If a person feels a certain way, then those feelings are valid no matter what anyone else thinks.

 

But PLEASE then help us understand a solution!!!

A poor white person can dress in their Sunday best and interview for a job and not have to wonder when they don't get a call back if it was because of their skin color. A poor black person, or even a well-off black person can't do the same.

 

But should they?? Sorry, but I just don't buy this. Should they rather focus on their interviewing skills or their resume? Which is more constructive? I think this is at the base of this matter. I have been hiring for 38 years now, and I have seen thousands of people hired or not, and I have NEVER seen a person denied a job because of their color or sex. And as I posted earlier to which I have not yet seen an answer...where are the minority and female engineers? Should I hire people as engineers JUST because they are minority or female?

 

The privilege in being white in the US is not necessarily racial...it is the connections and network developed among the power holders for several hundred years. (It wasn't any different for my wife getting a teaching job in Franklin or Anderson county...she knows somebody in one and doesn't in the other.) By history and correlation, whites have been the power base and controlling influence in the US since the Europeans settled it. This group established and maintained the power base and the connections. It hasn't nor will it go away over night. However, a big start would be our government - those entrusted with following our laws - following the same legal and non-discriminatory hiring practices that medium to large firms are held accountable for.