Courage? Maybe so, I'd imagine it does to some extent. Not anywhere near the courage it took to do what Lauren Hill did, or what Devon and Leah Still are doing, or what Stuart Scott did. That's my issue. To give her an award that has went to individuals such as Pat Tillman, Nelson Mandela, and the individuals from United Flight 93 over the individuals I mentioned is ridiculous and ESPN should be absolutely ashamed. They've completed cheapened the award and in turn the accomplishments of the individuals who have won the award in the past.

That is my issue with it. This is a cash in for hits. Bruce/Caitlyn is not the first pro athlete to go through this. While not on the same level, Renee Richards was the poster-child... someone ESPN devoted a 30 for 30 about.

 

I can believe it took courage to do what Jenner did.

Courage? Maybe so, I'd imagine it does to some extent. Not anywhere near the courage it took to do what Lauren Hill did, or what Devon and Leah Still are doing, or what Stuart Scott did. That's my issue. To give her an award that has went to individuals such as Pat Tillman, Nelson Mandela, and the individuals from United Flight 93 over the individuals I mentioned is ridiculous and ESPN should be absolutely ashamed. They've completed cheapened the award and in turn the accomplishments of the individuals who have won the award in the past.

 

Are their folks more worthy? Maybe so. I don't know, and I really haven't followed that award all that closely in the past. But again, as I mentioned before in another post, what she has done, is viewed as very heroic by the transgender community. To say that Jenner winning the award is disgraceful, and shameful, is devaluing the thoughts and feelings of that community. While you may not agree with them or what they have done, you're kinda calling that whole community disgraceful. And while you likely don't mean it to come across so hateful sounding, it comes across as very intolerant and hateful. Stats say anywhere between 2-5% of the population is transgender....that's a pretty large group you disenfranchising.

There's just no comparison between Bruce Jenner and Lauren Hill.

 

I have no issues with that opinion. Understand though, that someone who is facing the same struggle as Jenner may disagree.

. Again, I can't imagine anyone doing this just for publicity's sake.

Please, turn on the TV. Then get back to me on what people will do for publicity's sake.

Are their folks more worthy? Maybe so. I don't know, and I really haven't followed that award all that closely in the past. But again, as I mentioned before in another post, what she has done, is viewed as very heroic by the transgender community. To say that Jenner winning the award is disgraceful, and shameful, is devaluing the thoughts and feelings of that community. While you may not agree with them or what they have done, you're kinda calling that whole community disgraceful. And while you likely don't mean it to come across so hateful sounding, it comes across as very intolerant and hateful. Stats say anywhere between 2-5% of the population is transgender....that's a pretty large group you disenfranchising.

 

Where did I say anything you posted? You are really making a lot of assumptions and insinuations that just aren't there. To give the award to anyone, outside of the 3 I mentioned, is a disgrace to the award. It doesn't diminish anything, and it has nothing to do with her specifically or what she's doing. It has to do with those who are being overlooked.

 

For what it's worth, I bet the community of cancer patients and survivors is a whole hell of a lot bigger than that. To say she deserves the award over them you're saying that whole community is disgraceful.

 

I'd love to understand how I'm being hateful or intolerant for saying that a 20 year old girl that had cancer ravaging through her entire body fought and struggled for over a year to reach her dream of playing college basketball, and in the process raised millions of dollars for cancer research, deserves an award over her? Please enlighten me.

I have no issues with that opinion. Understand though, that someone who is facing the same struggle as Jenner may disagree.

 

So you have no issue with his opinion (which is the same as mine), but mine is somehow hateful and intolerant? Get out of here.

I think I've discovered the source of Mt. Ref's confusion — the new Ms. Jenner bears more than a passing resemblance to Rene Russo. I'm betting they used the same plastic surgeon.

Finkle and Einhorn...

 

Einhorn and Finkle...

Please, turn on the TV. Then get back to me on what people will do for publicity's sake.

 

Yes, people are willing to do some strange thing for 15 minutes of fame and publicity. But still, I think this is a pretty harsh and difficult road for someone to choose simply for publicity....especially since the Jenner is already pretty much set for the rest of life (and probably even longer) and has had many years of living in the limelight. This has certainly been an option for any one else to try for quite awhile, and no one has exactly jumped on it. In fact, most prefer to hide it and do it well away from the spotlight.

Yes, people are willing to do some strange thing for 15 minutes of fame and publicity. But still, I think this is a pretty harsh and difficult road for someone to choose simply for publicity....especially since the Jenner is already pretty much set for the rest of life (and probably even longer) and has had many years of living in the limelight. This has certainly been an option for any one else to try for quite awhile, and no one has exactly jumped on it. In fact, most prefer to hide it and do it well away from the spotlight.

Not buying it.

Ok...this is not a joke but something I've been thinking about. I know this is physically impossible at this point but let's say Bruce Jenner was 29 instead of 69. He is an Olympic hero, blah, blah, blah...goes through with this transformation to Caitlyn and decides he wants to return to the Olympics...as a female. Would this be allowed? I mean, he would technically be a woman.

 

Could you imagine someone winning the gold as a man and a woman?

So you have no issue with his opinion (which is the same as mine), but mine is somehow hateful and intolerant? Get out of here.

 

To be more clear...you specifically used the word "ashamed". You also threw in a "ridiculous" The award is based on courage (correct me if I'm wrong). And certainly all the people you mentioned that have won it in the past are deserving, as are the people you mentioned that you feel are deserving of this years award. But to many, what Jenner has done is also pretty courageous as well. Courage is courage, and if many view what Jenner did as courageous, then I wouldn't think it would be so shameful or wrong for him to be either considered for or actually win the award. Just because he did something that you may not agree with, doesn't make it any less courageous. In fact, the fact that so many disagree with what he's done, the number of jokes that have been made, along with the speculation about his motives, goes a long way to show that this took some courage to do.

 

So when I say I don't disagree with your opinion that someone else should have or could have won, I don't think the award is now cheapened or diminished. And saying so, the way you said, could sound hateful to someone in that community. And I don't think you meant it to sound that way.

 

I'm hoping that makes more sense.

Edited June 2, 201511 yr by rjs4470

I think it's bizarre, but to each his own. I just wish the media would let it go away, and I certainly don't believe he's worthy of the Arthur Ashe Courage Award. Especially when there are people like Stuart Scott, Lauren Hill, Leah Still, and hundreds of others that are more deserving (IMO, of course).

 

It's people who keep talking about this is why it won't go away, just look at how many posts are in this thread in a very short period of time. I actually think that some are uncomfortable over this issue in some ways that they won't admit.

 

Question, the people who are bringing up Lauren Hill, Leah Still, how many of those people donated to Lauren Hill? Or who bought a Still jersey to help raise awareness? I am willing to say that many who are bringing up these other names as more deserving didn't even donate a nickel. You are always going to have people say that this person or that person deserves a reward over another person. That will never end.

 

My mom died of cancer, does she get an award? I follow several pages on Facebook of kids with cancer and administrator on some of them, do those kids get an award? Why do people mention Lauren Hill or anyone else? Why was their struggle worse than someone else's? Again, no matter who wins an award there are others out there who will say "why not (insert name here)?"

Wonder how much old Bruce/Caitlyn made from Vanity Fair to bring his courageous awareness to the mixed up gender community?

It's people who keep talking about this is why it won't go away, just look at how many posts are in this thread in a very short period of time. I actually think that some are uncomfortable over this issue in some ways that they won't admit.

 

Question, the people who are bringing up Lauren Hill, Leah Still, how many of those people donated to Lauren Hill? Or who bought a Still jersey to help raise awareness? I am willing to say that many who are bringing up these other names as more deserving didn't even donate a nickel. You are always going to have people say that this person or that person deserves a reward over another person. That will never end.

 

My mom died of cancer, does she get an award? I follow several pages on Facebook of kids with cancer and administrator on some of them, do those kids get an award? Why do people mention Lauren Hill or anyone else? Why was their struggle worse than someone else's? Again, no matter who wins an award there are others out there who will say "why not (insert name here)?"

 

Well, said, much better than the way I tried to say it. It's ok to disagree. It just doesn't sound so good when words like "shameful" start getting thrown around.