Saying "I didn't hear it" doesn't confirm his story... Saying "He did not use a racial slur" would be confirming it...

 

So now your talking semantics and calling everyone in the area a liar and accusing the university of a cover up.

So now your talking semantics and calling everyone in the area a liar and accusing the university of a cover up.

 

I didn't say they were liars. I'm saying that in a packed arena seconds after a big moment in the game, I may not hear the guy next to me and what he is saying. If someone asked me if I heard him say something and I say I didn't hear him, that doesn't mean he didn't say it, just that I didn't hear it. I don't think that is such a ridiculous idea...

Saying "I didn't hear it" doesn't confirm his story... Saying "He did not use a racial slur" would be confirming it...

 

Deuce, we typically agree on a lot of things on here, but it seems to me you're convinced he said what Smart says he did, and nothing is going to change your mind. The only person that knows 100% if he said it is Orr. You've already dismissed his denial. The numerous people sitting around him have said they never heard him say it, you're now dismissing their denial of it. Outside of Smart coming out and saying he was wrong and it wasn't said, what is it going to take for you to believe that he didn't use a racial slur?

I didn't say they were liars. I'm saying that in a packed arena seconds after a big moment in the game, I may not hear the guy next to me and what he is saying. If someone asked me if I heard him say something and I say I didn't hear him, that doesn't mean he didn't say it, just that I didn't hear it. I don't think that is such a ridiculous idea...

 

Yet somehow Smart heard someone behind him say it, and somehow with his back to the crowd, knew exactly who said it? Come on, Deuce...

Saying "I didn't hear it" doesn't confirm his story... Saying "He did not use a racial slur" would be confirming it...

 

Were not sure what they said when asked that question, you may be correct. But they may have just been asked, "Did you hear Orr say the NWord?" how could they answer that? If I was asked what a guy sitting two seats away from me said I can say either Yes I heard it or I didn't hear it, I can't definitively say he never said it because I'm there to watch a game not monitor what everyone around me says.

 

I completely get your point and what your saying, but there is a chance here that he didn't say that. Smart actually gets up and is face to face with him for a few seconds as they say something back and forth then Smart shoves him. So I don't think it's about what was said while he was on the ground or he would have jumped up and fired right into him. He only shoved him after there little quick back and forth once he was standing up.

 

I dunno, I've tried to look at this with an open mind. It's a mess all around.

Deuce, we typically agree on a lot of things on here, but it seems to me you're convinced he said what Smart says he did, and nothing is going to change your mind. The only person that knows 100% if he said it is Orr. You've already dismissed his denial. The numerous people sitting around him have said they never heard him say it, you're now dismissing their denial of it. Outside of Smart coming out and saying he was wrong and it wasn't said, what is it going to take for you to believe that he didn't use a racial slur?

 

Again, you guys can call it semantics if you want, but nobody has said "Orr did not use a racial slur" other than Orr. People may have said they didn't hear it, doesn't mean it wasn't said. I'm basing my opinion off the video where Smart was pointing at the man and saying "Don't call me a N." He also stated to his coaching staff what was said to him. I'm biased/sensitive to situations like this because I have lived them myself. I'm on Smart's side, until given a legitimate reason otherwise.

Were not sure what they said when asked that question, you may be correct. But they may have just been asked, "Did you hear Orr say the NWord?" how could they answer that? If I was asked what a guy sitting two seats away from me said I can say either Yes I heard it or I didn't hear it, I can't definitively say he never said it because I'm there to watch a game not monitor what everyone around me says.

 

I completely get your point and what your saying, but there is a chance here that he didn't say that. Smart actually gets up and is face to face with him for a few seconds as they say something back and forth then Smart shoves him. So I don't think it's about what was said while he was on the ground or he would have jumped up and fired right into him. He only shoved him after there little quick back and forth once he was standing up.

 

I dunno, I've tried to look at this with an open mind. It's a mess all around.

 

It is a mess, for sure... Had I not seen the video of Smart saying what most agree he said, I wouldn't be so adamant about Orr's "guilt." I just don't think Smart makes those accusations for no reason. Some have said that he used the n-word as an excuse to justify his behavior and over-reaction. I'm not buying that he was so ticked and out of control that he pushed the guy, but then literally a few seconds later he was quick enough to make the decision to use the n-word as an excuse... Just doesn't seem logical to me.

Again, you guys can call it semantics if you want, but nobody has said "Orr did not use a racial slur" other than Orr. People may have said they didn't hear it, doesn't mean it wasn't said. I'm basing my opinion off the video where Smart was pointing at the man and saying "Don't call me a N." He also stated to his coaching staff what was said to him. I'm biased/sensitive to situations like this because I have lived them myself. I'm on Smart's side, until given a legitimate reason otherwise.

 

I guess my question is, why do you give Smart the benefit of the doubt, but even as evidence is building that it wasn't said, continue to dismiss the other side? Do you think it's entirely possible that Smart thought he heard something said, that in reality, wasn't? Do you think it's possible that he simply lost his cool due to frustrations that have been building for the past couple weeks?

 

As to being on Smart's side, what would constitute a legitimate reason to believe he was mistaken?

I guess my question is, why do you give Smart the benefit of the doubt, but even as evidence is building that it wasn't said, continue to dismiss the other side? Do you think it's entirely possible that Smart thought he heard something said, that in reality, wasn't? Do you think it's possible that he simply lost his cool due to frustrations that have been building for the past couple weeks?

 

As to being on Smart's side, what would constitute a legitimate reason to believe he was mistaken?

 

I believe that if Smart only "thought" he heard that, he wouldn't have told his coaching staff as a definite, and he would have said so at the presser. What could he have heard (or thought he heard) that was even remotely close to the n-word? I literally can't think of anything close to that word that might have been said in that situation.

 

A legitimate reason? Somebody besides Orr coming out and saying "He didn't say that, this is what he said...." Someone that was there, right next to him, in the same proximity as Smart. Again, "I didn't hear him" doesn't mean it wasn't said. Simply means that person(s) aren't snitching...

I'm a 39 year old white guy and I am giving Smart the benefit of the doubt. Orr has a history and Smarts in the heat of the moment reaction on the video was genuine to me.

^Smart has a history as well.

To some people, yes you would be. And some others you wouldn't, just like we have in this discussion. You also don't have a history of heckling me that would lead folks to believe you might say something crazy. As I've already said, you can't discredit Smart's position because nobody has confirmed his story when nobody has confirmed Orr's either.

 

There's audio that does support Orr's story. Obviously you can't prove it's him, but it's on the same side of the arena, it was shouted right when Smart gets angry and it sounds exactly like the words he claims to have said.

It is a mess, for sure... Had I not seen the video of Smart saying what most agree he said, I wouldn't be so adamant about Orr's "guilt." I just don't think Smart makes those accusations for no reason. Some have said that he used the n-word as an excuse to justify his behavior and over-reaction. I'm not buying that he was so ticked and out of control that he pushed the guy, but then literally a few seconds later he was quick enough to make the decision to use the n-word as an excuse... Just doesn't seem logical to me.

 

Yet it seems logical to you that no one around heard him say anything racial, except the one guy who had his back turned sitting on the baseline who then got up went directly to the guy who made this alleged statement and shoved him? That's logical?

I'm a 39 year old white guy and I am giving Smart the benefit of the doubt. Orr has a history and Smarts in the heat of the moment reaction on the video was genuine to me.

 

Orr has a history of being an idiot. He doesn't, as far as I've seen, have a history of being a racist idiot.

Yet it seems logical to you that no one around heard him say anything racial, except the one guy who had his back turned sitting on the baseline who then got up went directly to the guy who made this alleged statement and shoved him? That's logical?

 

Has anybody said they heard Orr call him a piece of crap?