How are they accumulated? Who dominates that stat? Starter, correct?

 

Who dominates the stat is irrelevant when evaluating a pitcher.

Who dominates the stat is irrelevant when evaluating a pitcher.

 

Really? So you feel comfortable comparing Homer to Chapman because they're numbers should be similar then?

Really? So you feel comfortable comparing Homer to Chapman because they're numbers should be similar then?

 

I feel comfortable comparing Homer to every other MLB starting pitcher in several areas which I have done.

 

There is not one definitive stat we can use. IMO W/L is one of the least indicative.

I feel comfortable comparing Homer to every other MLB starting pitcher in several areas which I have done.

 

There is not one definitive stat we can use. IMO W/L is one of the least indicative.

You're right, and it's a good thing because your guy is a career .500 pitcher. My entire point is that wins are not something you can just discard. Some guys have a knack for winning games. Homer never strings enough of his stats together to win more than 13. You googled his stats too. His WHIP last year was his best and still won 11 games. I understand your point. But starters will be known for their wins, like it or not.

When evaluating a pitcher, I like quality starts and WHIP. W-L is good but is dependent on offensive production. Every pitcher has a bad outing now and then, but I would like to see who can put a series of good starts in a row against good and bad teams. What is their track record over the last 3 years? Can you count on them to be the one who breaks a team out of a losing streak? Power pitchers can usually pitch anywhere. If not, can they adjust their style depending on the park they are in?

When evaluating a pitcher, I like quality starts and WHIP. W-L is good but is dependent on offensive production. Every pitcher has a bad outing now and then, but I would like to see who can put a series of good starts in a row against good and bad teams. What is their track record over the last 3 years? Can you count on them to be the one who breaks a team out of a losing streak? Power pitchers can usually pitch anywhere. If not, can they adjust their style depending on the park they are in?

 

ERA, ERA+, WHIP, and QS are the most important aspects IMO. K:BB, WAR, K/9 IP, and OBA are both up before wins as well IMO.

ERA, ERA+, WHIP, and QS are the most important aspects IMO. K:BB, WAR, K/9 IP, and OBA are both up before wins as well IMO.

Tough to amass wins without solid numbers from your list is my only argument.

For sure the guys who argue the importance of W/L are the ones that hate Votto walking and not driving in runs. It's not 1990 anymore. There is real data to look at now.

Tough to amass wins without solid numbers from your list is my only argument.

 

No doubt but the numbers he mentioned actually show what a pitcher is capable of rather than if your offense scores enough runs for you every five days.

The real question is, how freaking bad do you have to be to allow your pitcher to lose 12 games the year he wins the Cy Young?

 

61-101.........OUCH!

For sure the guys who argue the importance of W/L are the ones that hate Votto walking and not driving in runs. It's not 1990 anymore. There is real data to look at now.

 

You need to get off that pony. This ain't Walmart, you're out of quarters. No one has discounted the numbers. Teams get to the post season based on wins. Teams rely on starters to get the bulk of those wins. See the thread and discussion MTGL had about his guess about starters wins this season to see if that argument makes sense. If you continue to bang the drum that wins aren't important, then you need to be happy with a 70 win season and the starters win 51 of those. Maybe we will have the best WHIP as a team of starters and they'll give us an automatic bid to the post season.

You need to get off that pony. This ain't Walmart, you're out of quarters. No one has discounted the numbers. Teams get to the post season based on wins. Teams rely on starters to get the bulk of those wins. See the thread and discussion MTGL had about his guess about starters wins this season to see if that argument makes sense. If you continue to bang the drum that wins aren't important, then you need to be happy with a 70 win season and the starters win 51 of those. Maybe we will have the best WHIP as a team of starters and they'll give us an automatic bid to the post season.

 

If you compile a staff that has the best WHIP in the league and you miss the postseason, it isn't your pitching's fault.

 

This isn't about wins. It's about judging the value of an individual pitcher. Tell me Spin, would you rather give a large contract extension to a pitcher that is coming off a year where he went 18-10 with a 3.75 ERA, a 1.5 WHIP, a low K/9 ratio, and an opponent's BA of near .270, or to a guy who goes 9-9 with a 2.55 ERA, a 1.05 WHIP, has one of the better K/9 ratios in the league, and held batters to a .230 OBA???

If you compile a staff that has the best WHIP in the league and you miss the postseason, it isn't your pitching's fault.

 

This isn't about wins. It's about judging the value of an individual pitcher. Tell me Spin, would you rather give a large contract extension to a pitcher that is coming off a year where he went 18-10 with a 3.75 ERA, a 1.5 WHIP, a low K/9 ratio, and an opponent's BA of near .270, or to a guy who goes 9-9 with a 2.55 ERA, a 1.05 WHIP, has one of the better K/9 ratios in the league, and held batters to a .230 OBA???

It depends. If I'm in Colorodo or Petco. It depends on the financial differences, their ages, what else I have in the system, who I have on staff and their contract status.

 

All things equal, I'd take the guy with the better stats, guy B, minus the wins. However, in Homer's instance, he hasn't spent 7 seasons without run support.

It depends. If I'm in Colorodo or Petco. It depends on the financial differences, their ages, what else I have in the system, who I have on staff and their contract status.

 

All things equal, I'd take the guy with the better stats, guy B, minus the wins. However, in Homer's instance, he hasn't spent 7 seasons without run support.

 

And that's what we're saying. All things equal, you take the guy with the better numbers, regardless of what their W/L record is, because they're going to put your team in the better position to win more often throughout the course of the season.

 

And I agree regarding Homer, there's no way I'd give him anything close to what he's going to be commanding on the market.

Guys guys guys.....I'm hear to tell you the deal has been made. I mean, how else would they be able to have the Homer Bailey Dual Bobblehead Night at GABP on May 10th????