If we have a government shut down...

[Jumper_Dad]

@AP: BREAKING: Obama signs legislation ensuring military will get paid during any government shutdown.

 

Keep crapping on him. Don't stop now.

 

It was legislation that was sent to him from The Hill, he can't just make up his own legislation. Would have been a complete tool not to have signed it.

 

Put forward by House Republicans, the troop-pay bill is considered good politics for the GOP, since analysts suggest the party could bear the brunt of the blame for any government disruption.

 

Read more: Government shutdown: Obama to sign military pay bill - POLITICO.com

[Run To State]

It was legislation that was sent to him from The Hill, he can't just make up his own legislation. Would have been a complete tool not to have signed it.

Exactly! But, hey, lets pretend Obama plays no role in any of this.

 

By the way, am I correct in this is the 19th Government shutdown?

[Dlbdonn]

no its this The Rolling Stones - Live 1966 - 19Th NERVOUS BREAKDOWN - YouTube

[75center]

@AP: BREAKING: Obama signs legislation ensuring military will get paid during any government shutdown.

 

Keep crapping on him. Don't stop now.

 

All essential services always do. This has the feel of gamesmanship by both parties.

[PurplePride92]

It was legislation that was sent to him from The Hill, he can't just make up his own legislation. Would have been a complete tool not to have signed it.

 

My bad. From what I gathered he is a tool.

[leatherneck]

Who was elected on a platform of ending Obamacare? I am sure there were some elected with that as part of their platform, but was anyone elected with ending Obamacare the central part of their platform?

I'd say that a lot of those considered to be tea partiers and elected in 2010 expressed very strong opposition on the campaign stump to Obamacare. People clamor for compromise by our elected officials. I've done it myself. But I fully appreciate people believing that elected officials should first and foremost stick to what they promised their constituents when they campaigned. That's called keeping your word; having integrity. It's called representative government. It is THE job of Congress, particularly the House, to represent and present the desires of their constituents. I've said it before; I'll say it again: a whole lot of this mess lies squarely at the feet of our President. Not all but a huge part. He greatly lacked the skills needed for the executive branch when he took office and 4 plus years later I haven't seen great improvement. He did not and still has not convinced enough Americans of the merits of Obamacare and he made a huge strategic and tactical error when he crammed it down the Rs throats. Won the battle but made it much more difficult to win the war. There are many, many people from both parties that fervently believe that compromise is why this country is in such rotten shape today. For every far righter that blames the deficit for today's problems, there's a far lefter that blames low corporate taxes and corporate welfare for today's problems. For every far righter that blames gay marriage for today's problems, there's a far lefter that blames the ability of people to become billionaires while there are people still poor for today's problems. The once great "middle" has significantly diminished as people have moved closer to the extremes. And that won't change until a new president with strong leadership skills is elected. I'm no President Obama basher. Not even close. I was a Marine officer however. I know leadership when I see it. I also know the lack of leadership when I see that too. President Obama may be very intellectually smart; he may be a great husband and father; he may be a great and caring person; he may be a great guy to shoot hoops and share a couple of beers with; but in my opinion he has been a very poor leader. I know some will respond with the argument that there are Rs that refuse to be lead. And I'm sure there is some truth to that argument. When that happens, a President has to go around them; he has appeal to the people; he has to lead the constituents of those people to support his agenda. Reagan was a master of doing just that. Reagan was a masterful leader. He was able to convince every day Americans registered as Democrats to support conservative legislation. Hell he was able to convince Tip O'Neill, one of the most powerful and liberal persons in the history of the Congress, to support some of his conservative legislation. This country will remain mired until a person with strong leadership skills and traits (be that person a D or an R) is elected President. If anyone cares to check, when President Obama got elected the first time, while I supported McCain, I posted that I did think and hope that President Obama had the skills to unite a large part of this country. He certainly had the charisma and oratory skills to do so. I was optimistic. Then his inexperience as the leader of an executive branch, while pushing a very aggressive agenda in his first couple of years, wiped the usefulness of those skills off the blackboard. If Reid, Pelosi and others pushed him to act quickly after his election, they did him no long term favors; they did this country no long term favors. No one has to like or agree with the above. They are just the thoughts of a 55 year old, pretty well educated, very experienced in the ways of the world, pretty well rounded (pardon the pun) person that is called a conservative by liberals and a Rino by tea partiers. Which is just fine by me. (Edit: for reasons I don't understand, I did not intend for this to be one long paragraph. I tried to create multiple paragraphs).

[Hellbird]

For clarity, the lies about the deficit and debt ceiling are?

 

If the deficit has shrunk then there is no reason to raise the debt ceiling.

But you see, that isn't what has happened, Obama's spin is actually that he has slowed down on spending and instead of saying that he says the he has cut the deficit. All he's done is slowed down the overspending a bit. the deficit is still increasing every second.

[Bluegrasscard]

It was legislation that was sent to him from The Hill, he can't just make up his own legislation. Would have been a complete tool not to have signed it.

 

And, as an appropriations bill, it had to ORIGINATE in the House of Representatives. It was not a bill crafted, at least originally, by Mr. Reid.

[LIPTON BASH]

Who was elected on a platform of ending Obamacare? I am sure there were some elected with that as part of their platform, but was anyone elected with ending Obamacare the central part of their platform?

 

Ted Cruz. That is why all this Ted Cruz hate is funny. His people of his state voted for him on the platform to end Obamacare. Many of the people in the House ran on a tea party ticket that was against Obamacare. It was all pretty out in the open. Republicans ran an anti-obamacare wave to take back the house in 2010.

[LIPTON BASH]

For clarity, the lies about the deficit and debt ceiling are?

 

I think again people confuse deficit and debt. Obama has lowered the deficit. But it is really not that big of a deal because all he did was lower it from his own highs. The deficit is still higher than any other president before him. Also because the deficit is still running at large numbers we are still adding to the debt at a record pace. It is hilarious to listen to try and make his deficit reduction as some sort of miracle only he could do, comical.

 

Deficit= Annual Budget

 

Debt= All outstanding debt the government owes

[LIPTON BASH]

If the deficit has shrunk then there is no reason to raise the debt ceiling.

But you see, that isn't what has happened, Obama's spin is actually that he has slowed down on spending and instead of saying that he says the he has cut the deficit. All he's done is slowed down the overspending a bit. the deficit is still increasing every second.

 

The deficit can shrink and the debt still grow. The deficit is the annual budget. It just means we are losing a little less money each year , but we are still losing money and adding it to the debt.

[Voice of Reason]

Ted Cruz. That is why all this Ted Cruz hate is funny. His people of his state voted for him on the platform to end Obamacare. Many of the people in the House ran on a tea party ticket that was against Obamacare. It was all pretty out in the open. Republicans ran an anti-obamacare wave to take back the house in 2010.

 

 

I agree that anti-Obamacare has been part of the platform for the Tea Party, and much of the Republican party. Here is the disconnect I see. I believe the clear majority of the country wants health care reform. It was one of the key factors that got Obama elected and re-elected. I agree with LN's post above that Obama has failed to lead on the call for health care reform. Yes, he got the legislation passed but as LN and others say, by not leading and gaining more Republican input and buy in he has helped create the campaign of anti-Obamacare rhetoric, to the extent that people who want health care reform are anti-Obamacare. I am close to being in that group. However, my position is I want health care reform and therefore I absloutely do not want Obamacare ended. I want health care reform but I have a wait and see attitude on Obamacare. I say keep it, fix the problems and move forward.

 

I understand where many Republicans have fought for 5 years against Obamacare and won elections with that as part of their platform. I also understand that there are perhaps just as many Democrats who won elections with support of Obamacare as part of their platform. There is no doubt Obama won his elections with health care reform/Obamacare as a key part of his platform. That gets us to where we are and that is why compromise needs to happen. That is also where Obama, Reid, McConnell, Boehner and others are all failing as leaders.

 

I do understand the desparate attempts to stop Obamacare. If it continues to move forward, it will never be stopped. If the ACA is still in place and up and running at the end of next year, there is no chance it will ever be eliminated. So if you are focused on stopping Obamacare, this is your last chance. I believe Cruz and others realize that and that is why they are fighting so desperately hard to do something to stop it.

[LIPTON BASH]

I agree that anti-Obamacare has been part of the platform for the Tea Party, and much of the Republican party. Here is the disconnect I see. I believe the clear majority of the country wants health care reform. It was one of the key factors that got Obama elected and re-elected. I agree with LN's post above that Obama has failed to lead on the call for health care reform. Yes, he got the legislation passed but as LN and others say, by not leading and gaining more Republican input and buy in he has helped create the campaign of anti-Obamacare rhetoric, to the extent that people who want health care reform are anti-Obamacare. I am close to being in that group. However, my position is I want health care reform and therefore I absloutely do not want Obamacare ended. I want health care reform but I have a wait and see attitude on Obamacare. I say keep it, fix the problems and move forward.

 

I understand where many Republicans have fought for 5 years against Obamacare and won elections with that as part of their platform. I also understand that there are perhaps just as many Democrats who won elections with support of Obamacare as part of their platform. There is no doubt Obama won his elections with health care reform/Obamacare as a key part of his platform. That gets us to where we are and that is why compromise needs to happen. That is also where Obama, Reid, McConnell, Boehner and others are all failing as leaders.

 

I do understand the desparate attempts to stop Obamacare. If it continues to move forward, it will never be stopped. If the ACA is still in place and up and running at the end of next year, there is no chance it will ever be eliminated. So if you are focused on stopping Obamacare, this is your last chance. I believe Cruz and others realize that and that is why they are fighting so desperately hard to do something to stop it.

 

We have a president who said he will not compromise. The GOP has already compromised. They can't get a counter proposal.

[Voice of Reason]

We have a president who said he will not compromise. The GOP has already compromised. They can't get a counter proposal.

 

That is true. Obama is being very clear that he will not compromise on anything that delays Obamacare. There are some very hard lines drawn there on both sides. Both sides won elections because of their position and don't want to compromise.

 

The bad thing for the Tea Party Republicans is they cannot win this one and that is why Obama is being so hard core. It is bad strategy on their part. As much as everyone is squawking about the shutdown, it really isn't that big a deal so it is no leverage against Obama. A number of Republicans also disagree with this strategy by the Tea Party faction. Didn't Rand Paul even say he disagreed with this tactic?

[75center]

We have a president who said he will not compromise. The GOP has already compromised. They can't get a counter proposal.

 

I thought I had read that the Democrats scaled back funding to meet the GOP plan but they will not budge on Obamacare. If true that is compromise. Does anyone have a link to the two plans and how, if any, they've changed over the past few weeks?