Never once said Ben's arms wasn't better? So not exactly sure what your getting at there....

 

You talk about how Dalton's arm is not good and he is a game manager and said he will never be a top 10 QB. Which I agreed with you that he is more of a game manager right now. However that does not mean that is all he ever will be. Big Ben didn't seem to be like more of a game manager too during his first few years, and relying on defense and a running game before he really took off. Then as mentioned Brees was doing so bad after this first two years, they drafted someone to take his place before he got it all together. Which he had all the same concerns as you have about Dalton. So its way to early to basically make a judgement of him like you do, basically saying he will always only be a game manager and never that good. So far two years in the NFL and two playoff appearances, and has shown he can make big plays at the end of games. So there is plenty of reason to think he will get better and more consistent as his career goes on.

 

He doesn't have a big enough arm to get into the top 10 ever. Hell there are 3 rookies with way more upside than him and that's not counting the already established elite ones. 2 for 2 is a great start though. If he can keep improving it will be nice.

Most of the time guys who make a lot of plays with their legs are far more likely to get hurt. I'm fine with a QB that doesn't take that risk

 

I worded this incorrectly. I'm talking about the guys that make plays, when things start breaking down. Eli, Peyton, Brady, Big Ben, Romo, from the past Favre. Not running QBs at all, but know how to slide in the pocket. Know when to get outside the pocket, not to run, but to make a downfield throw. Dalton seems very limited when it comes to "pocket prescence." Like I said if 1 or 2 isn't open, sack or throw away.

I worded this incorrectly. I'm talking about the guys that make plays, when things start breaking down. Eli, Peyton, Brady, Big Ben, Romo, from the past Favre. Not running QBs at all, but know how to slide in the pocket. Know when to get outside the pocket, not to run, but to make a downfield throw. Dalton seems very limited when it comes to "pocket prescence." Like I said if 1 or 2 isn't open, sack or throw away.

 

Got you. Agreed. Seems like Gruden thinks he doesn't allow the plays to develop either b/c the color guy on a prime time game mentioned that Gruden wasn't happy with how quick he got rid of it at times.

So, will this win prove to be the watershed? Having slayed the steel dragon w/ a key late game throw be enough to mentally get over whatever hang ups he has had against better competition?

Anyone who questions Dalton's arm strength, please watch that last pass yesterday in the Steelers win. The #1 most difficult pass to throw and the real test of arm strength, especially in the NFL, is the deep out. Dalton's throw to Green on the deep out was a beauty and it was under the most pressurized of circumstances. The long pass down the sideline to Green that was knocked out of Green's hands by Paumalu was a great, on target long pass. I have no concerns about Dalton's arm strength. This is a little like the story about UC basketball academics that would not die even as they kept posting very good GPA's. Someone posts the story, the media buys into it and then it becomes a story that will not die regardless of what facts hit people in the face. Posters who are convinced Dalton doesn't have a strong arm will pay zero attention to that deep out to Green yesterday or will say it was a fluke.

 

I do want to see more out of Dalton in these areas though:

 

1. Make a play out of the pocket. He has good wheels but he very seldom will go outside the pocket. I would like to see him have more pocket presence, feel the pressure, escape the pocket and make a play.

 

2. Accuracy. I am much more concerned about Dalton's accuracy than his arm strength. He is missing too many open throws. The Bengals receivers don't get clearly open very often and Dalton can not miss on the times they do. He has missed too many of these passes this year.

 

3. Take a chance. He was much better at this versus the Steelers yesterday. I don't care if you miss on these but sometimes you have to risk making the difficult throw or throw it when the receiver is covered and give them a chance to make the play.

 

Despite the stats yesterday, I thought Dalton did a very good job in the face of constant pressure with zero running game and limited threats at receiver.

He doesn't have a big enough arm to get into the top 10 ever. Hell there are 3 rookies with way more upside than him and that's not counting the already established elite ones. 2 for 2 is a great start though. If he can keep improving it will be nice.

 

Joe Montana and Drew Brees have proven you don't have to have a great arm to be a good QB. Those two guys ended up being great QB's, so I don't know how you can say how his arm would keep him from being top 10 even though history shows that people not only can be top 10 with average arms but elite. Even though I have mentioned Brees, I don't think he will become elite like him however can be a top 10 QB. Him and his average arm as you said has put up very good stats that rank in the top 10 in most areas, and has led his team to two playoffs already. So if he can learn to become more consistent then it is very possible for him to be a top 10 Qb. Other people have noticed his arm is strong enough, and people who break down the position and have played in like Ron Jaworksi have even said he is a good QB with potential to be very good if he becomes more consistent. The potential is there, but for some reason you can't let what you heard before the draft change your opinion even though majority of people who evaluate him have changed their opinion.

I worded this incorrectly. I'm talking about the guys that make plays, when things start breaking down. Eli, Peyton, Brady, Big Ben, Romo, from the past Favre. Not running QBs at all, but know how to slide in the pocket. Know when to get outside the pocket, not to run, but to make a downfield throw. Dalton seems very limited when it comes to "pocket prescence." Like I said if 1 or 2 isn't open, sack or throw away.

 

Got you. Agreed. Seems like Gruden thinks he doesn't allow the plays to develop either b/c the color guy on a prime time game mentioned that Gruden wasn't happy with how quick he got rid of it at times.

 

Now this I agree with and one of the areas he has to get better at. If he doesn't get better at that then he will always be a game manager.

Anyone who questions Dalton's arm strength, please watch that last pass yesterday in the Steelers win. The #1 most difficult pass to throw and the real test of arm strength, especially in the NFL, is the deep out. Dalton's throw to Green on the deep out was a beauty and it was under the most pressurized of circumstances. The long pass down the sideline to Green that was knocked out of Green's hands by Paumalu was a great, on target long pass. I have no concerns about Dalton's arm strength. This is a little like the story about UC basketball academics that would not die even as they kept posting very good GPA's. Someone posts the story, the media buys into it and then it becomes a story that will not die regardless of what facts hit people in the face. Posters who are convinced Dalton doesn't have a strong arm will pay zero attention to that deep out to Green yesterday or will say it was a fluke.

 

I do want to see more out of Dalton in these areas though:

 

1. Make a play out of the pocket. He has good wheels but he very seldom will go outside the pocket. I would like to see him have more pocket presence, feel the pressure, escape the pocket and make a play.

 

2. Accuracy. I am much more concerned about Dalton's accuracy than his arm strength. He is missing too many open throws. The Bengals receivers don't get clearly open very often and Dalton can not miss on the times they do. He has missed too many of these passes this year.

 

3. Take a chance. He was much better at this versus the Steelers yesterday. I don't care if you miss on these but sometimes you have to risk making the difficult throw or throw it when the receiver is covered and give them a chance to make the play.

 

Despite the stats yesterday, I thought Dalton did a very good job in the face of constant pressure with zero running game and limited threats at receiver.

 

A great assessment of him, and all things I know I have seen and agreed with. That is why I think he has the potential to be a top 10 QB one day. He already has shown to be a winner, and can make winning plays when you need him. His arm is not as weak as people said coming out of college, and even those people now changed their opinion on his arm except for SSC. It may not be a rocket arm, but plenty strong enough to do well in the NFL as evidence on that out patter under pressure. If he can improve on the areas you mentioned, which with him being young we have to think he hopefully will get better in those areas. If he does and he gets more consistent play from the #2 spot, then he has a chance to be a top 10 Qb.

Dalton's arm is plenty strong enough. His problem is his deep ball lacks accuracy. Any throw over 20 yards he struggles with and this hasn't improved any since his rookie season so unless he improves with that he will never be the threat we need in this league.

Dalton's arm is plenty strong enough. His problem is his deep ball lacks accuracy. Any throw over 20 yards he struggles with and this hasn't improved any since his rookie season so unless he improves with that he will never be the threat we need in this league.

 

I believe you will see more bombs connect when the Bengals get a second receiver fast enough to get behind safeties. That second threat will open things up and get more space for Dalton to throw to. Right now he has to be pinpoint accurate and there are very, very few QB's that can consistently throw long with the accuracy required for Dalton. He has virtually zero room to work with.

I believe you will see more bombs connect when the Bengals get a second receiver fast enough to get behind safeties. That second threat will open things up and get more space for Dalton to throw to. Right now he has to be pinpoint accurate and there are very, very few QB's that can consistently throw long with the accuracy required for Dalton. He has virtually zero room to work with.

I agree and we do need a 2nd receiver big time that can compliment AJ. IT is too easy for teams to double and triple him when he is our only deep threat.

 

With that said though Dalton still needs to improve his accuracy down field.

Dalton's arm is plenty strong enough. His problem is his deep ball lacks accuracy. Any throw over 20 yards he struggles with and this hasn't improved any since his rookie season so unless he improves with that he will never be the threat we need in this league.

 

Now I do agree with you on this. He does have to improve on his accuracy down field. There are sometimes when he overthrows Green, when if anything if he even throws it behind him it would at least give Green a chance to go up and get it.

Very True and even though they were the worst team in the league the year before they got him, they did put pieces around him on offense. Two backs who were two of the best backs in football before he came, two very good TE's and an older but still very good receiver in Steve Smith. So offensively he does have weapons, and that showed with how well he did last year. However you would like to see progress from year to year, and he has not shown that this year. Plus he has also shown that his leadership abilities is a big question mark which is not good for someone who is the QB on the team. Not to mention two rookies this year in Luck and RG3 went to teams who were not suppose to be good, and probably not even as much talent around them as Newton yet they have won. They have the talent and leadership abilities, Newton seems to be missing that so far.

 

It has only been two years though, and he does have all the tools. So he can end up being great if he puts it all together.

 

Newton did not have a training camp his rookie year either.

Joe Montana and Drew Brees have proven you don't have to have a great arm to be a good QB. Those two guys ended up being great QB's, so I don't know how you can say how his arm would keep him from being top 10 even though history shows that people not only can be top 10 with average arms but elite. Even though I have mentioned Brees, I don't think he will become elite like him however can be a top 10 QB. Him and his average arm as you said has put up very good stats that rank in the top 10 in most areas, and has led his team to two playoffs already. So if he can learn to become more consistent then it is very possible for him to be a top 10 Qb. Other people have noticed his arm is strong enough, and people who break down the position and have played in like Ron Jaworksi have even said he is a good QB with potential to be very good if he becomes more consistent. The potential is there, but for some reason you can't let what you heard before the draft change your opinion even though majority of people who evaluate him have changed their opinion.

 

You keep comparing him to those two and it is just a brutal comparison. My guess is he ends up closer to Mark Sanchez than either one of them.

Dalton's arm is plenty strong enough. His problem is his deep ball lacks accuracy. Any throw over 20 yards he struggles with and this hasn't improved any since his rookie season so unless he improves with that he will never be the threat we need in this league.

 

I believe you will see more bombs connect when the Bengals get a second receiver fast enough to get behind safeties. That second threat will open things up and get more space for Dalton to throw to. Right now he has to be pinpoint accurate and there are very, very few QB's that can consistently throw long with the accuracy required for Dalton. He has virtually zero room to work with.

 

I agree and we do need a 2nd receiver big time that can compliment AJ. IT is too easy for teams to double and triple him when he is our only deep threat.

 

With that said though Dalton still needs to improve his accuracy down field.

 

Now I do agree with you on this. He does have to improve on his accuracy down field. There are sometimes when he overthrows Green, when if anything if he even throws it behind him it would at least give Green a chance to go up and get it.

 

Isn't it possible his accuracy and especially his deep ball accuracy isn't good because of his arm not being big enough? That is how I see it. I think he misses throws because of it all the time.

 

I will say the throw to Green that won the game Sunday was a great throw and one I didn't expect him to be able to make all that easily.