A Christian United States is not what has saved me from going to hell. It is the grace and mercy of God and what Jesus done on Golgatha. He died so that I can live. He went to hell and snatched the keys to my life from the devil. He rose on the third and appointed day with all power in his hand. I know where I'm going no matter what anyone says.

 

I think the point they were making is that if you were born in a country where Christianity was not the dominant religion and you were not "evangelized" some scripture would say that you were doomed to hell.

Then thank your lucky stars you all happened to be born in the Christian United States of America -- if not, every single one of you would be destined to Hell.

 

What? There are more Christians outside of America than there are within. China by itself has appx. 100 million Christians.

Even Obama?

Obama, Bush, Reagan, Carter it doesn't matter. Read and study the whole Chapter of Romans 13 and you will see.

 

I think the point they were making is that if you were born in a country where Christianity was not the dominant religion and you were not "evangelized" some scripture would say that you were doomed to hell.

John 4:24 tells us that God is a spirit and he must be worshiped in spirit and in truth. It doesn't matter where you are you should worship the Heavenly Father in spirit. If you are at work, worship him. At home, worship him. At church, worship him. In a garbage dump, worship him.

 

Everything I do is so that God is glorified. I take credit for nothing. I am nothing without him. He has brought me a mighty long way and I thank him everyday.

My point is one that can be found in a previous thread. It has to do with religion being a consequence of location and upbringing. All I'm saying is that by mere luck each and every one of you was born in the United States of America, where you were raised as a Christian. Had you been born in another nation, you would have undoubtedly been raised as a member of another religion if your parents were of another religion, say Muslim. As a consequence of that, you would be going to Hell.

 

If God created it all and He is compassionate and understanding and can see inside of man, then wouldn't He realize this fact? Wouldn't that be a bit obtuse of Him or perhaps even bordering on a God of Predestination on his part?

 

Two other things have been said that I disagree with. First of all, to insinuate that the Bible is "not worth the paper it's written on" just because I disagree that God is going to deny people from Heaven who lived a Christ-like life and weren't Christian is not really fair. The Bible is a book that has many meanings to me and has taught me many things and is worth much more than the paper it's written on. Secondly, to insinuate that the Bible is to be taken as complete fact and not an interpretation is a matter of opinion, and quite obviously, an interpretation made by those who think that, themselves. I may be misunderstanding your point here, but I don't think the Bible contains only significance and meaning to those who accept it as complete fact.

The Calvinists believe in the doctrine of "unconditional election," which means that God does not base his choice of an individual on anything other than his own good will. He chooses whomever he pleases and passes over the rest. Those whom God chooses will be filled with a desire to come to Him, and will do so because He has chosen them. Some Calvinists take this a step further and imply what's called "double-predestination." In this doctrine, God elects some for salvation, but sends others to damnation before they are even born.

 

In the Catholic faith, we believe that God does predestine some, but only because He knows in His omniscience that they will choose to follow Him. Others will be passed over, not because God damns them to Hell, but because of their inherent sin and their choice to walk away from God. This is known as "the doctrine of passive reprobation." No one perishes because he is unable to be saved, but because he is unwilling to be saved.

 

God desires everyone, without exception, to be saved. He gives sufficient grace (for salvation) to all, yet not all are saved. We know that Christ died to atone for all men. John 4:42 describes Christ as "the savior of the world." Also, 1 John 2:2 declares Christ to be " the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the whole world." And most interestingly, 1 Timothy 4:10 describes God as "the savior of all men, especially of those who believe." It does not say "only of those who believe." So if we hold to the idea that only those who follow a very narrow path can be saved, we must first call the Bible, and this passage specifically, a lie.

Great post, Birdsfan.

How literally do you take the Old Testament, particularly the Pentateuch?

Sorry it took me so long to get back to your question. I have said on here many times that the Law of Moses is not our standard to follow for salvation. The first 5 books of the OT is what God gave to the chosen people to go by. If you read Galatians/Hebrews you will see where Jesus "Nailed the Old Law to the cross".

 

The Old Law is still used by the Jewish people who don't believe Jesus is the Savior. John 14:6 Jesus actually says "No one come to the Father except through me" No One is huge. The Jews could face torment but I'm not the judge, Jesus who they don't believe is the judge.

 

The Pentateuch covers the time from creation to the end of the Mosaic Era. This law was given on Mt Sinai, it took these people 40 years to get to the promised land due to their dis obeying God. God wanted to connect man back to him and this came Jesus, Matthew 1:21

 

The Old Law gives a history lesson that brings on Jesus. read Leviticus 18/19, it gets kinda different in the laws they give. Moses gave us the Big 10 but actually there were so many more. This Old law/New law issue is missed by more people concerning the Bible than any issue. Even I as a young believer couldn't come to grips of it until I just kept studying.

 

Hope this helps, feel free to come back if I said something that confuses you even more.

Edited March 13, 201214 yr by Alabama Larry

Sorry it took me so long to get back to your question. I have said on heremany times that the Law of Moses is not our standard to follow for salvation. The first 5 books of the OT is what God gave to the chosen people to go by. If you read galatians/hebrews you will see where jeus "Nailed the old law to the cross".

 

The Old law is still used by the jewish people who don't believe jeus is the savior. John 14;6 jesus actually says "No one come to the father except through me" No One is huge. TheJjews could face torment but I'm not the judge, jesus who they don't believe is the judge.

 

The Pentateuch covers the time from creation to the end of the Mosaic Era. This law was given on My Sinai, it took these people 40 years to get to the promised land due to their dis obeying God. God wanted to connect man back to him and this came Jesus, Matthew 1:21

 

Thanks, Larry. I was just curious.

Thanks, Larry. I was just curious.

I actually re read this as I usually do and fix my errors. I'm sorry.

All I'm saying is that by mere luck each and every one of you was born in the United States of America, where you were raised as a Christian. Had you been born in another nation, you would have undoubtedly been raised as a member of another religion if your parents were of another religion, say Muslim.

 

This would surprise American citizens who were born and raised as Jews, Muslims, Hindus, non-Christian Native Americans. It would also surprise people from other countries who WERE born and raised as Christian.

Not being able to move my arrows and re typing on here is so hard for me. Not sure why I can't move my cursev any except clicking. We must not forget that in 2nd Timothy Paul tells us that "All scripture is God breathed, and is useful in teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness".

 

Also Ephesians 2:8:9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through Faith. And this is not from yourselves, it is the Gift from God., not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workman ship created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God prepared in advance for us to do."

I heard a preacher say this once..."Every person is saved, until ...they have heard the Gospel and reject it." It kinda made me think. So people who don't get a chance to hear the Gospel, then they cannot turn it down, so are they judged differenty? So, I researched this and found this. Isaiah 55:8;9 (This is God speaking) "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways declares the LORD. As the Heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways., and my thoughts than your thoughts". Also Psalm 143:3 says the same thing.....So, thats why he is God and he knows things our little minds will n ever ever reach. All people all people will be accounted for. On Judgement days.

 

Just like we know of other religions they also know of the Christian faith. I have 2 books on Islam, Mormon, Jevoah Witness. So, if I can get other views they can too, but in some nations they can be killed for trying.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to your question. I have said on here many times that the Law of Moses is not our standard to follow for salvation. The first 5 books of the OT is what God gave to the chosen people to go by. If you read Galatians/Hebrews you will see where Jesus "Nailed the Old Law to the cross".

 

The Old Law is still used by the Jewish people who don't believe Jesus is the Savior. John 14:6 Jesus actually says "No one come to the Father except through me" No One is huge. The Jews could face torment but I'm not the judge, Jesus who they don't believe is the judge.

 

The Pentateuch covers the time from creation to the end of the Mosaic Era. This law was given on Mt Sinai, it took these people 40 years to get to the promised land due to their dis obeying God. God wanted to connect man back to him and this came Jesus, Matthew 1:21

 

The Old Law gives a history lesson that brings on Jesus. read Leviticus 18/19, it gets kinda different in the laws they give. Moses gave us the Big 10 but actually there were so many more. This Old law/New law issue is missed by more people concerning the Bible than any issue. Even I as a young believer couldn't come to grips of it until I just kept studying.

 

Hope this helps, feel free to come back if I said something that confuses you even more.

 

I believe Paul states that the Law serves/served as the tutor or prompter to us. So it is important but it is not the Final Word.

God desires everyone, without exception, to be saved. He gives sufficient grace (for salvation) to all, yet not all are saved. We know that Christ died to atone for all men. John 4:42 describes Christ as "the savior of the world." Also, 1 John 2:2 declares Christ to be " the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the whole world." And most interestingly, 1 Timothy 4:10 describes God as "the savior of all men, especially of those who believe." It does not say "only of those who believe." So if we hold to the idea that only those who follow a very narrow path can be saved, we must first call the Bible, and this passage specifically, a lie.

 

Like you, I believe those verses you pointed out clearly communicate that Christ died for all--that he is the Savior for the whole world. The Bible's most popular verse clearly teaches that God so loved the world that He gave His only Son. But the rest of that verse also says that those who believe in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

In other words, Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to atone for the sins of all human beings--past, present & future. So God's grace is available to the whole world via His Son. It's a free gift that no one can earn by any amount of good deeds. But that gift, like any gift, must be accepted by the recipient.

 

To your "narrow path" comment, I would highlight Jesus' own words from the Sermon on the Mount--“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it" (Matthew 7: 13-14). Jesus himself described the way "that leads to life" as narrow & the way that "leads to destruction" as wide.

Moses gave us the Big 10...

But God gave us the SEC!