quickslick

How, exactly, are you "sure" that the boys soccer team has supported other teams/programs. I am sure some of them have ... but there are a bunch of others who don't. Student athletes can make their own decisions as to if they want to go and watch another team play. And if there are boys soccer players who go to other sporting events ... that is a decision that they made because they wanted to go to the game. What I really don't understand is why you feel like the other student athletes should fill stands. Simply for one reason ... I have never been to a soccer game where there is more than a 100 people in the stands and I have NEVER seen the stands full (or close to it) for any of the 500 plus soccer games I have seen. And for that matter .. at Beechwood ... try going to a football game against Dayton/Ludlow/First and Second round playoff game where there are more than a 100 people. And I can't remember the boys soccer parents filling up the bleachers on a Friday night!

And exactly what culture is that? The culture of working tirelessly to help the school? The culture of academic excellence? The culture of a successful football program? Working tirelessly to build programs that are in place? Working tirelessly to protect the student athletes who have worked side by side with people who disappear when things get tough? From the beginning ... I have been very clear about the fact that the only sport that EVER mentioned the worry of losing kids to another program is cross country .. which I have a personal stake in. I admit .. and I accepted it ... and have moved on from it. (And yes I have ... I can move on yet still speak to the situation and still move forward). Not to mention ... there was a very definite point where the football program disengaged from the situation. Football was straight up worried about facilities. Not just for football .. but for every sport and every activity (band/cheerleading included). From there ... Oldbird--I have a ton of respect for your point of view ... but when did it become the football programs job to make the soccer supporters feel like puppy dogs and rainbows on a bright spring day? Seriously ... the football program took their selves out of the process ... yet here you are ... supporting a side that went outside of the process. Say what you will ... but forging names of kids to show "interest" is ugly ... please tell me how the football team made them do things like that? To be fair ... there were a couple families involved who went out of their way to at least try and understand where guys like me were coming from. It bothers me greatly that I haven't spoken about the great effort they made to try to do things right. That group is the reason why I will do everything in my power to help make things work ... whether it be manual labor ... or my retirement fund. If they read any of this ... I hope they know who they are .. because they should not be painted with my broad brush. From there ... there was a post earlier in this thread (NOT from Oldbird) that spoke to the fact that things like state championships are not important ... and participation is what truly matters. Yeah well ... that is exactly what Rec leagues are for. You have every other sport in the school trying to be the best that they can possibly be ... and then you have boys soccer supporters being happy with "I won ... I participated". From there ... I will continue to do everything possible to help our school. I am more than willing to step up to the plate for our programs by contributing same the tireless work that I have displayed since 1998 ... and I would be more than willing to contribute to any financial campaign that creates better facilities for all of our activities What I won't do ... is let people trample on the efforts of good people who have worked hard for MANY years at Beechwood to appease boys soccer. When that group decides that they want to wake up and smell some reality ... things will change (for the better) immediately.

Ummm ... no. For track ... there is a girls team and a boys team--all under the same umbrella with kids from 5th grade to seniors in high school (and high school kids make up the vast majority of the program). Also .. pretty sure that track season is in the spring ... and also pretty sure that the track team uses the track ... the throwers and other specialties get a very small area of the field .. because the baseball/softball teams are usually on the field. The middle school football team is on the field at the same time as the freshman and varsity teams (at least for most of their practice). The middle school and freshman teams rarely are on the field by theirselves (rarely meaning 1 to 2 times a month).

Thats a pretty broad brush you are painting with! I am willing to accept that ... providing that you understand that the proper protocol was not followed for adding a team at Beechwood. According to the KHSAA Interest survey .. which is what Beechwood has used before and after .. There were 3 kids on the list. There were 7 other sports that were ahead of boys soccer on the interest survey. WHY WERE THOSE SPORTS NOT ADDED!? Now keep in mind ... Beechwood addressed the KHSAA Interest survey (held every two years at the direction of the KHSAA). Girls/Boys Cross country was added. Based on the survey--adding cross country kept us in a great spot in regard to Title 9 requirements ... plus .. it got more votes than any other sport on the list. Cross country compliments track ... so there is a large group of kids who will keep the pipeline flowing. From there .. there is a former "leader" .. who did everything possible to squash cross country ... because that person knew it would be significantly harder to add soccer the very next season ... especially since it was immediately obvious that there would be immediate success and a very solid foundation for the cross country program. You have 2 NLE's (No longer employed) who pushed this behind the scenes for reasons unrelated to the KHSAA interest survey. (And it shouldn't be too hard to figure out where I am coming from). It would have never happened if the proper process was followed ... from parents being allowed inside school to solicit interest ... to parents flat out forging kids' names who had zero interest in playing soccer .. to former "higher ups" who did everything in their power to make sure the AD was not involved (which is flat out her job). I could go on and on. From there ... I could care less if the soccer supporters are skeptical of the football program. The fight for football was straight up FACILITIES .. which we most certainly do not have. There are much more pressing issues. And I will leave you with this ... Beechwoodfan brought up some good points. Something that needs to be done (and in my opinion ... ASAP) is repair/update/modernize the track. Then it hit me ... I have never mentioned the need for a new track inside or outside of Beechwood. Does the track stink? At times (especially when it rains ... lots of fun walking through 18 inches of water all the way around the end of the field/track). But ... let me tell you this ... you are not going to see me raising a stink about the track. We are a team .. and our kids understand that no one is ever going to hand them ANYTHING ... and we are extremely fortunate to have anything at all. What this comes down to ... there are a few people who hate football, This group of people are hell bent on doing everything they can to interfere with the football program. There are numerous options that have been thrown out which do not revolve around the field that would work just as well ... or significantly better than the football field. Guess what ... none of those people will even consider something outside the field ... even if it is BETTER! From there ... it really doesn't matter ... you don't have to believe what I say ... that's no issue with me. But keep in mind ... if this process was followed properly .. things would be somewhat different. (or night and day different).

No ... we do not have a regulation track ... and are landlocked. Not to mention ... I don't think any school would want to come to a meet .. where one end of the track has 90 degree corners. In the spring ... we constantly dodge baseballs and softballs when the baseball/softball teams are on the turf .. which is often. I won't even go into the part where the softball backstop is two lanes deep on the inside of the track. Could we go somewhere else? The distance kids are on the road a lot .. the sprinters/jumpers/throwers would have trouble moving somewhere else. Beechwoodfan brings up some very good points .. and it woke me up a little. We are averaging 110 kids each season (that number includes elementary age kids 5th/6th graders who run the middle school schedule). I should be raising heck about the track ... because that is needed much, much, much more than lines on the soccer field.

Point proven ... "That is the only fair solution" .... seriously ... do the soccer people at Beechwood hate football so bad that they are willing to go toe to toe as opposed to finding a better answer that works for everyone ... not just soccer? Go ahead .. put lines on the field .. which means that we will eventually lose 1.5 lanes of a 4 lane track (and it will be that way .. because the drainage patterns change). Who cares if the 100+ track kids lose their space ... those 14 soccer players certainly deserve it much, much more. The only TRUE fair solution ... is to get the baseball and soccer teams to start a capital campaign to turf the field on top. It solves a ton of issues for every team .. not just football. I don't even know what to say anymore.

They just redid Fort Mitchell Park ... and they work on it daily. It is pretty nice now. (But it certainly needed work). The field up top has been compared to a minefield in this thread ... but I was just up there about 30 minutes ago ... it certainly isn't close to a mindfield ... but the girls still deserve better. Right/wrong/indifferent ... I think the answer is turfing that field. I think it can be done ... and we can get a better deal on turf if we find a way to get it done at the same time that the football field is returfed. If we can find a way to turf up top ... it would be a great venue. There was a game there last year ... maybe a district or all a game ... lot of attendance ... pretty close to the field ... I am not a soccer guy ... but I stayed simply because it is an electric atmosphere. Once the gym is built .. we go back to having the amount of space. Get rid of the softball diamond on the far end that is never used ... you can fit the soccer field with plenty of run off space. Upfront ... my motivation is to help the girls soccer team ... because they SUFFERED to make things work. There were only dead ends ... no doorways. If the boys team can piggyback onto that ... cool. (I just need to focus on something else to get myself going). Like I said before ... I would much rather be part of the solution than the problem ... I will work (happily and well) with anyone who wants to help me. We can all keep arguing ... or we can put our heads together and make things work. I am ready. If that isn't good enough for the boys program .... then I think it becomes more than obvious that this isn't even about facilities or anything other than picking a fight with football (which is certainly the way that this thread has turned to).

In reference to this situation .... TIP OF THE ICEBERG!!

First off .... you are most certainly correct regarding the football schedule for this season. It ends up as four .. Somerset is grass ... Ironton is not. With that said 4 is out of 13/14/15 isn't a lot. I still have a hard time understanding why the field up top is good enough for the girls ... but not good enough for the guys. The girls program has worked extremely hard to improve their field ... from my standpoint ... it is working. It may not be the best in the world ... but after walking it today ... I certainly wouldn't call it a mindfield (I have no problem agreeing to disagree there). From my point of view ... if we can find a way to turf that entire upper field ... to the end of the property line ... it could certainly work for both soccer teams ... and all 3 baseball teams in the spring (and possibly the softball team ... since they play their games on the turf). There was some initial conversation that the girls would not be able to play on the field this season ... due to the location of the fences. When the school finally spoke to the real project manager .. he stated that they could move the fences back more than far enough. As far as not following the official hiring process for the boys coach goes ... it really doesn't matter if it works or not ... it should never have been done that way. By doing it that way ... you end up with a bunch of coaches (who had to go through the proper hiring process) who stop and wonder where they stand. The two jokers who steamrolled everyone ... and kept the AD out of the loop created a horrible situation ... not just for the coaches who feel disrespected ... but it puts the soccer coach in a bad spot. But ... what do those guys care now ... they are not there anymore ... they created a train wreck that puts the school in a horrible spot.

The Cross Country program will continue to spend time on the track for workouts ... and on the side of the field for warm up -- for the foreseeable future. We already make the best out of a bad situation ... especially considering the fact that we have such a diverse group in age. I am not putting our younger kids on the road everyday .. the side of the field and the track are much safer for them .. The football team plays on grass? ... at the most ... 2 times a year. But--what grass are they going to practice on? Are they going to take away the girls soccer field up top? Or .. are you going to have a football team pack up their equipment every day to head to Fort Mitchell Park? Here is another question ... if you are at JV soccer games that are cut short .. knowing that the boys team didn't play any home games last year ... how do you know if anyone was on the field? I have seen some crazy things ... but I haven't seen one person in two different places at the same time! Not to mention ... when I leave football practice or cross country ... I usually meet the band going down the hill the other way to set up for their practice. Very rarely is it free for more than a few minutes once school starts. Here is a question ... why can't the boys soccer team share with the girls soccer team? You know .. there is already a soccer field up there! Oh.. thats right ... the boys soccer team is more important than the girls team ... so they should be on the turf! It just proves that most people who think they have a clue don't ... the current surface on the field which will be replaced at the end of the year/beginning of next is right about on par with the field up top. I know we have all kinds of field turf experts here ... but it is already 3 years past it's recommended use. With the current drainage issues ... it keeps the football and every other team off the field for an extended period of time after a mild rain. Go walk on that turf for 5 minutes ... then go up and walk on the soccer field .. you will need some WD-40 for your joints. Last ... I am WELL AWARE of how much field turf costs (and I am pretty sure that I mentioned that I would be more than willing to make a 6 digit donation if we can put a better track around it ... so ... pretty sure that 6 figures fits 300,000). But ... it all comes back to what I said a post ago ... the real intention here is forcing the hand of all three football teams, the 110 member band, the cross country team, etc. Funny how no other option but the field is good enough. Funny how proposing 3 years off campus turns into ... "we got what we wanted ... now lets see how far we can push things so we get our way". From there ... the boys soccer parents found a way to bypass the official process for adding a team ... with that type of influence ... they should easily be able to come up with the funds to get a project like that moving. The sense of entitlement is down right horrible ... let me guess ... we should start giving everyone a trophy for participating? If I were a resident of Fort Mitchell ... I would have a few complaints as well .. IE: *I would be livid over not allowing the electric billboard a few year back. All the money made from that could have paid for 20 fields. *I would also demand to know why the "former big shots" intentionally bypassed other members of the administration to keep the boys soccer meetings on the down low ... so there would be as little opposition as possible. *Heck ... I would love to know why the boys soccer parents were allowed to hand pick their coach ... and why that coach didn't have to go through the formalized process. I mean ... seriously ... if you want to start a program ... don't you go out .. and look (or at least .. pretend to look) for the best possible coach? Not to mention .. the person in charge of hiring coaches was not allowed to do a fair and impartial coaching search to find the best candidate. *I would love to know why the "former big shots" refused to acknowledge the results the of KHSAA interest survey ... and to slander the way the AD administered the survey ... even though it followed the KHSAA process to the letter. *Most importantly ... I would love to know why the "former hot shots" ignored the fact that adding another boys sport would take the Title 9 boys/girls average money spent percentage from nearly perfectly even ... to inflating the boys number (and it doesn't matter if soccer paid for things on their own .... ALL figures .. donations .. school funding must legally be included in those figures). Heck .. I would LOVE to know why the "former hot shots" no longer work at Beechwood!!!

Do you know how silly you sound? I have put out at least 3 different options to find a way to make things work. I am willing to help with the process ... physically and financially ... yet ... no one (other than Clyde) will even speak to any of those options. I wonder why that is? I think we have found the answer ... it sure sounds like the only option that boys soccer/supporters will accept .. is to be on the football field. (AFTER they proposed 3 years off site--by the way ... what a great lesson for the kids in the program ... make a proposal in writing ... go through a tough process .. where they win their opportunity ... then go back and not keep your word ... real classy ... real classy ... great thing to teach kids) Who cares if there are already 100 to 200 kids on the field at the same time already ... from the dismissal bell to 11:00 pm. You have yet to bring up one suggestion ... other than the football field ... which is already overbooked. Yeah ... who cares if there are better ways to make this deal work ... lets try to squeeze 2 more teams (because you are not bringing just the boys soccer field down there ... you will also have to have the girls soccer team) .. but who cares ... as long as you can make the football team blink ... MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!! Does Brossart have facilities off campus? Does NCC have facilities off campus? Pretty sure they do. Beechwood doesn't. It isn't close to being an apples to apples comparison ... no matter how many times you try to nail a square peg into a round hole. You say "find a way to make things work" ... well Einstein ... I put the after school practice schedule a few posts ago ... look at it ... and tell me how to make things work. Looks like things could definitely work sharing the girls soccer field ... but I guess that the boys soccer team is too good to practice/play up there. Everyone keeps saying ... "this is about the kids" .. NO ... IT IS NOT ABOUT THE KIDS--IT IS ABOUT THE SOCCER KIDS ... WHO GIVES A CRAP ABOUT THE OTHER 200 STUDENT ATHLETES!!

Understood ... but you don't really get the full picture until you speak to how many kids are on the field at the same time ... which is something that we have worked hard to make work. And like I said .. LexCath still has more room to work with ... especially after looking at the google earth image with distance mapping .. cut 75& of the baseball field in the image .. and we are still way out of space (because that 25% left isn't part of the field .. it is the baseball/girls soccer field).

For the Varsity Kids ... we already do 2-3 days a week ... the younger kids ... not so much (and we have down to 5th graders/elementary team). At the same time .. our designated meeting/ending location is the track (there are no locker room left for cross country). From there ... we have 2 to 3 workouts a week on the track. I would be pretty surprised that there are a lot of teams in the state who do workouts on the track.

I need to comprehend what I read better .... Are you really saying that the Girls Soccer team should get the field for 2 hours ... while saying that the Boys Soccer team should get 2.5 to 4 hours? Hello Title 9!!

Ha, ha ... when Clyde points out something that comes from me .. that helps my idea ... I know it has to be a good thought!! Right on Clyde.

I can name one ... Pikeville. No ... make that two ... Beechwood Both of which have at least double of the available space as Beechwood.

Cool ... more than willing to throw this out there ... different eyes could certainly have a different perspective. Field 3:00 pm: End of School 3:20 pm to 4:40 pm: Cross Country (On the track and side of field 4 days a week) 3:25 pm to 6:00 pm: Varsity Football (Whole field from 3:25 pm to 4:30 pm-ish) 4:30 pm to 6:30 pm: Freshman Football 6:00 pm to 8:00 pm: Middle School Football 7:30 pm/8pm to 10:30 pm or LATER: Band is on the field when there are no games scheduled (100 to 110 kids). The band has the same rights to use the field as any other sport. On Saturdays--practices are usually 9:00 am to 12:00 pm (cut shorter when there is a reserve/middle school game) Games: Football--5/6 Home Games Every Friday Night (MS and Frsh practice right after school) Reserve Games: 5 Home Games on Saturdays or Mondays (and Other days if necessary) Freshman: 4/5 Home Games mostly Thursdays or Wednesdays .. .6:00 pm start time Middle School Football: 5/6 Home Games ... No particular days. Upper Field 3:00 pm: School's Over 3:30 pm to ? (The girls work hard--until they are done) *Games for Varsity/Reserve scattered through various times/days of the week. *Area is currently much smaller due to construction of new 2nd Gym. As I have said before ... this isn't a football issue. There are as many as three football teams plus the cross country team inside the fence ... which is over 120 kids alone. Football is already significantly more flexible than any other program .. you have four teams there for a significant period of time. And .. ... no one is going to get the band off the field.

I will even go further ... if we can find a place that can fit a 6 or 8 lane track around the outside of the turf soccer field ... I will guarantee a 6 figure contribution.

Not at all ... I just think that they need to prove their point by following the plan they submitted. And they certainly did have some advantage that the four other new sports did not get. I am all for fair treatment. But it is nearly impossible to find time for all fall sports to be on the field without being there until 3:00 am. There is a soccer field that the girls use. Is that not good enough? If it is good enough for the girls ... it should certainly be good enough for the boys. What about some type of agreement with Fort Mitchell parks? The boys practice and play there now ... how about the school board gets together with the parks department and they find a way to make that home .. like I said above .. I am willing to donate money for a good facility that benefits the kids/programs. Heck .. some of the old Turf may be able to be reused if the proper funds can not be obtained. So ... I am definitely willing to agree that things can work. If Highlands can make Tower Park into the facility that it is ... why can't it be done in Fort Mitchell? Or ... are the "other" people right ... is this a power play to try to hurt the football program? As far as people who are not associated with Beechwood having a clue about what actually goes on there ... yeah well ... that and a quarter won't even make a phone call anymore. If you are not in that place everyday ... and I literally mean .. .everyday .. you can't speak intelligently about it and how things operate. It is 95% GREAT and 5% BAD ... but it is certainly significantly different than any other school anywhere. I would be willing to bet that I am the only person who has publicly commented on the situation outside of the soccer supporters. I am 100% ready to get away from this part of the conversation .... if we can move it towards finding a way to truly look at all options to make things work.

Either way ... I am interested in, at the very least, trying to find a way here. Would it turn anyone off ... to try to field turf the current upper field--which would include the baseball diamond and girls soccer field. Even with the construction ... if the field was turf--the layout of the soccer field could be moved further away from the school .. and could fit well. There should be plenty of room for practice and the schedule could certainly accommodate homes games for the girls/boys teams .. lights shouldn't be a problem up there ... and I am sure they would come in handy during baseball season as well. Not to mention--it gives the 70 plus baseball kids and softball team a place to practice when conditions are wet (as opposed to the track kids having to dodge grenades for 2 hours daily). As a show of good faith that I am willing to make this work ... I am willing to donate $5000.00 towards the project. I have no clue what it will cost overall... it will be expensive ... but I will certainly throw my hat in the ring to help. Thoughts/suggestions/ideas?

The feeling is mutual ... ... ... ... ... ... the thought of being at a school where Boys Soccer is the only sport that matters certainly would not sit well with me ... or basically everyone else I have ever worked with.

Ha, ha ... more general comments ... still no plans. Lex Cath has 2.8 times more land at their disposal than Beechwood. Nice try though.

Exactly ... who cares about the truth! As long as boys soccer gets their way .. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS INCLUDING THE 200+ OTHER STUDENT ATHLETES!!!!

This just proves you have no clue what went on. I agree .. it is about the kids. The problem is--the people who pushed this thought it should be more about the 14-18 kids who want to play soccer than the 200+ who are already on being flexible ... sometimes to 11:00 pm at night! But it is not about championships? Yeah ... okay. Keep in mind--the only reason why there is a turf field at Beechwood is because the football team won championships. Otherwise ... we would be fighting about a swamp that no one would care about. When the proposal was submitted ... they wanted to be considered a "club" sport for the first season .. without any help from the school. And that was going to happen (with the full support of someone high up who knew better who was trying to discredit the current AD). If it wouldn't have been for some resourceful people who actually pay attention to the KHSAA guidelines/rules ... a whole lot of people would be in some hot water. I personally made the statement ... that KHSAA sanctioned schools are not allowed to play against club teams ... and it took calls and documentation to ensure that things were done right. They ended up getting a ton better than what they even asked for. Seriously ... they got more than what they asked for. Why is it everyone elses fault that they GOT WHAT THEY ASKED FOR (and MORE)?? Any time you want to sit down with me ... in person and look at all the paperwork ... I will be more than happy to do it. Not to cause trouble ... but to get some of this stuff out in the open to see that people were not so much against soccer ... as they were about protecting their programs, kids, etc and to speak out about the lack of facilities--which is an issue that already causes serious issues on a daily basis . even before track/cross country were added. As far as rules go ... I said RULEBOOK ... I didn't say anything about changes after the 15th. Pretty sure the rulebook will have the most recent rules/updates/changes that were already set earlier this year.

To your first question ... Yes ... there would have been a boys soccer team. I have given many different reasons why soccer happened ... and it wasn't just because they offered to be off campus (which held no value because they use campus facilities when they are available). I harp on the off campus part for 2 reasons: 1. Because they should prove that things will work with the plan they submitted--and I think it very well could. 2. The girls soccer team went through a ton of effort to make things work for their program--and they did it by following a much tougher set of guidelines that were down right oppressive. And they did it a manner where they built relationships and truly tried to work with the other programs. To this day ... they handle things as well or better than any other group I have been around. As far as the field goes ... I think you make very fair points. I say that knowing that ... the field has to be widened .. .as even the soccer coach says in the articled linked in this post ... the track program ... which already dodges baseballs and softballs daily ... will end up with a little more than half of their track. We immediately lose a lane for the widening ... and at least another half for drainage--which is a huge issue in that geographic location (it rained for 20 minutes last night--2 entire lanes were at LEAST a foot deep with water). But we should definitely push the 100 kids in the track program so we can widen the field. And it can only be widened on the stand side. You can't go closer to the expressway because it is state land. You can't go closer to the school end zone because there is a main support retaining wall for the school/cafeteria and you can't expand to the fieldhouse side because the field house is there. The one thing that I think could work well ... put field turf where the current baseball field/girls soccer field is. If that is turf--then the soccer field could shift and co-exist with baseball without messing up the mound, dirt, etc (the base paths are already grass .. so it wouldn't be a huge deal). Right now--that really can't happen because the new addition is being built. But I think it could work. From there--based on the way this happened ... and the fact that some of the higher ups who colluded with certain "others" to make sure that this happened ... still leaves a bad taste in the mouth of MANY people. Especially since those people are no longer at the school. Again ... letting parents in school ... write down names of kids that they never talked to ... letting parents pick a coach without going through the true hiring process ... making the other new sports work to a significantly tougher set of guidelines even when they had true, accurately obtained interest via the KHSAA interest survey .... I am sorry ... without that type of help from those people who are no longer involved .. it wouldn't have happened to begin with. Last ... I am NOT talking about parents signing kids up. I am talking about writing names down that had never spoken to anyone ... kids, parents, Captain Kangaroo, etc. There was a list .. .and I still have a copy of it with names of kids--who never signed up ... their parents never signed up ... but most importantly ... NEVER WOULD. I can't believe you still try to justify that ... like some mistake was made or something. From there ... the numbers thrown around still do not come close to matching the public statements that have been made. If things would have been right from the beginning ... I am sure that the people against it would still be against it. But ... I think that eventually ... most would get over it because it simply was done in a fair manner as opposed to the shady, backdoor, buddy buddy, I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine way it ended up.