Before the Alonso harping begins, I heard the guy from MLB network (Mark Sheldon?) talking to Marty last night and he said Alonso will not play 3B with Arroyo or Willis on the mound.

That speaks volumes about the Reds' belief of Alonso's competence at third base ...

Any team that doesn't try to develop guys that are needed for the following year because they are playing a team better than them deserves to never get better. I think you are grossly overstating this practice.

 

OK, let me give lesson two in this week's thread. This practice has nothing to do with playing a team better than them. When teams are in a pennant race, they want to know that the team they are battling for the pennant is facing a team that is trying to win. If you are the Braves trying to catch the Phillies, do you want to see the Reds playing 5 AAA guys against the Phillies? No, you want the Reds pitching their best pitchers and playing their best lineup, not trying out the AAA guys here and there. That is why you will see teams that are way out of contention in the last week of September still playing their top players in games against the contenders in a tight race. It is about the integrity of baseball and a pennant race.

OK, let me give lesson two in this week's thread. This practice has nothing to do with playing a team better than them. When teams are in a pennant race, they want to know that the team they are battling for the pennant is facing a team that is trying to win. If you are the Braves trying to catch the Phillies, do you want to see the Reds playing 5 AAA guys against the Phillies? No, you want the Reds pitching their best pitchers and playing their best lineup, not trying out the AAA guys here and there. That is why you will see teams that are way out of contention in the last week of September still playing their top players in games against the contenders in a tight race. It is about the integrity of baseball and a pennant race.

 

Again I think you are grossly overstating how often this happens. Of course the Braves want the Reds to trot out their "best" lineup. However I would be beyond shocked if teams don't try to develop their young guys when they have a chance. To me this is all about Dusty getting this team above .500. He may have been told to go all out because it helps sell tickets or for any other public relations reasons. I think it's absurd however to think it's because the Braves need the Reds to beat the Phillies.

Maybe it was just me, but I saw Cairo make an error on a double play ball. Good thing he was in there, though!

 

Scatter chart didn't account for that I guess.

Again I think you are grossly overstating how often this happens. Of course the Braves want the Reds to trot out their "best" lineup. However I would be beyond shocked if teams don't try to develop their young guys when they have a chance. To me this is all about Dusty getting this team above .500. He may have been told to go all out because it helps sell tickets or for any other public relations reasons. I think it's absurd however to think it's because the Braves need the Reds to beat the Phillies.

 

Trust me. I am a baseball fanatic and have been for a long time. It happens every year there are close pennant races - fact. Yes, teams play their young players to see what they have and they should. They will get the opportunity to play them even more this year with no close pennant races. But I guarantee you that if the Cards were 1 game behind Milwaukee and the Reds were 15 games out, the Reds better not put all the AAA guys on the field when they face the Brewers. You will hear Tony LaRussa whining at levels even he hasn't reached.

Please, please come on guys. It isn't that difficult. Let me be as clear as I can - the start against Hamels had NOTHING to do with who was pitching. NOTHING! Everyone knows Alonso can hit and he would be playing every day if it were only about that, regardless of who is pitching for the other team. It is about putting him in a position to succeed defensively and not cost the team games. Scatter charts, hitting tendencies, who is pitching for the Reds, matchups of opposing hitters versus the Reds pitchers - that all factors in to getting Alonso on the field.

 

As for the comments about just put him out there and who cares that he makes errors and costs the team the game, that is putting one player ahead of the team. If I am one of the other Reds players and I walk in to the clubhouse and see Alonso playing LF, I just shake my head. I want to win tonight. I want the best team on the field. I don't want to go out there and put my body on the line when management is interested in having tryouts and doesn't care about winning games. The fact is the Reds front office messed up big time on Alonso. It is so obvious in a few games that he can't play LF, why did they waste his time in LF at Louisville. He should have been playing 3B in Louisville for two months.

 

And how about when they walked into the clubhouse and saw Willy Taveras or Corey Patterson or Paul Bako or tonight with Paul Janish in the lineup? Do you honestly think that the players that have had to endure the output from all those guys felt any better with them in the lineup. Give me a break, at least with Yonder they can see the potential that he brings to the team.

But its too late to play him at 3B in Louisville now so why not find out if he can play there here if there is even the smallest possibility he will play there next year? How many combined games do you think Lewis and Renteria will start for the Reds next year? If your answer is 0 which is the correct answer neither of them should start except for possibly once a week. Frazier and Alonso should start almost every game the rest of the year. If players on this team don't realize it's time to think about next year they aren't very intelligent. I really could care less if Cueto finishes the year with an ERA below 2.00. I really do care if Alonso can field any position besides first and if he can hit major league pitchig if he starts 27 games out of 30. Anyone who sees it differently doesn't understand small market teams. I'm of the opinion Dusty wants to finish at .500 or better because he thinks he could get an extension after next year if next year goes well and they have 3 years in a row above .500. Dusty isn't looking out for the future of this franchise. He's looking out for himself. I understand his position. I don't agree with it.

 

Imo you hit the nail on the head with Dusty. I think he sees the handwriting on the wall that this could be his last stop and he wants to be able to say that he had a .500 season. If he didn't he would play the young kids and see how they function against good teams and good pitching.

Trust me. I am a baseball fanatic and have been for a long time. It happens every year there are close pennant races - fact. Yes, teams play their young players to see what they have and they should. They will get the opportunity to play them even more this year with no close pennant races. But I guarantee you that if the Cards were 1 game behind Milwaukee and the Reds were 15 games out, the Reds better not put all the AAA guys on the field when they face the Brewers. You will hear Tony LaRussa whining at levels even he hasn't reached.

 

So what Tony Larussa whines about everything that ever happens in baseball? I really don't care how long you've been a fanatic. I think it's comical a team would waste opportunities to develop their young guys because the other team is in a race. I really think it doesn't happen as often as you think. And if you are right, why did he start against the Phillies and not the Nationals?

I agree that we need to get Alonso out there at 3B. Even better, he needs to go to the instructional league or winter ball and get experience at 3B. But the fact is you can't quit on this season now for a lot of reasons. It is important to finish the season strong and that has an impact on next year. It is important to all the players that big league quality line ups are on the field. Every pitcher on the staff wants a winning lineup behind him because that W or L is a permanent mark on your record. Players want to put up good numbers and who is hitting around them impacts that. There are other teams in baseball that want the reds to win and you can not disrespect the game at this level by putting a AAA team on the field. Wouldn't the Braves love it if the Reds could have taken 2 or 3 games from the Phillies? How would you feel in the Braves clubhouse if it was clear the Reds didn't care about winning and just wanted to experiment every night? There are a lot of reason why you don't bag the season and just goof around trying this and that. Finally, it is to Alonso's benefit that they handle this right. If they just throw him out there at 3B and he makes 3 errors in one night, what good does that do? That does more harm than good. Yes, we are all disappointed in the Reds this year. We all want Alonso hitting the ball every night at this point in time. But there is a whole lot more to it than just putting him out there and seeing what happens.

 

How would this be any different than what Houston has done by trading Pence, Bourn and trying to dump Wandy Rodriguez, virtually becoming a AAA team.

And how about when they walked into the clubhouse and saw Willy Taveras or Corey Patterson or Paul Bako or tonight with Paul Janish in the lineup? Do you honestly think that the players that have had to endure the output from all those guys felt any better with them in the lineup. Give me a break, at least with Yonder they can see the potential that he brings to the team.

 

Yep, I agree. I shake my head on all those guys. Of course, if you don't have any better options, not much you can do.

 

On a side note, I can't believe Corey Patterson is still playing. I guess speed and defense can keep getting you paychecks if you hang in there.

How would this be any different than what Houston has done by trading Pence, Bourn and trying to dump Wandy Rodriguez, virtually becoming a AAA team.

 

Trying to rebuild a team and organization is different than not putting your best team on the field in a game.

OK, let me give lesson two in this week's thread. This practice has nothing to do with playing a team better than them. When teams are in a pennant race, they want to know that the team they are battling for the pennant is facing a team that is trying to win. If you are the Braves trying to catch the Phillies, do you want to see the Reds playing 5 AAA guys against the Phillies? No, you want the Reds pitching their best pitchers and playing their best lineup, not trying out the AAA guys here and there. That is why you will see teams that are way out of contention in the last week of September still playing their top players in games against the contenders in a tight race. It is about the integrity of baseball and a pennant race.

 

Excuse me but the Braves don't pay the Red's salaries and they aren't rooting for them any other time of the year. Either play better or spend more money on your team if you want to compete with Philly. I hate the fact that the Phillies, Yankees, Red Sox, etc., etc., etc. can buy their way to the playoffs but that's another story. Don't talk about the integrity of the game. The only way that the bottom feeders in baseball can compete is by developing young talent and you don't do that @ AAA facing has beens.

Yeah, that's not happening. :lol: Still can't believe they didn't trade Ramon.

 

Not with Baker making out the lineup unless Jocketty tells him to.

Excuse me but the Braves don't pay the Red's salaries and they aren't rooting for them any other time of the year. Either play better or spend more money on your team if you want to compete with Philly. I hate the fact that the Phillies, Yankees, Red Sox, etc., etc., etc. can buy their way to the playoffs but that's another story. Don't talk about the integrity of the game. The only way that the bottom feeders in baseball can compete is by developing young talent and you don't do that @ AAA facing has beens.

 

:idunno: Why did you quote me in that post? What you said has nothing to do with what I posted.

Turn off the TV. You may not see it as much this year because there aren't many tight races, but there are games virtually every season in baseball where a team that is out of the race in September will purposely not play young players because they want to put their best team on the field against teams still in a pennant race.

 

If you look at the Red's lineup day in day out they are probably better off and more competitive with some of the younger players on the field.