I really don't think so. He has done a good job with that Dayton team this year but when talking about the top coaches in the region I don't quite think he is in that company. Not sure when he took over but Dayton hasn't exactly been tearing it up the past few years. 15-11, 11-16, 10-17, and 4-21 in the last 4 seasons. (I can't remember if Dilts was there for the 4-21 season)

 

Dayton has a talented team of seniors this year but not quite ready to crown Dilts as a top coach in NKY. Please don't think I am taking away from what that team or he has accomplished but when talking about the top just don't see it.

 

I agree with you RC. The test for Dilts will be what Dayton does next year and the year after. I am sure next year will be down with all the seniors this season but if he can get to .500 or better next year and then have more success the year after, then some can argue to consider him among the coaches being discussed here.

All of this is well and good, but do wins really measure how good (or bad) a coach is?

All of this is well and good, but do wins really measure how good (or bad) a coach is?

 

I will expound on this a little bit. To me a good coach or a bad coach is a little overrated. If you do not have the horses to compete in the race it really does not matter how good of an X's and O's person you are. This is why coaches at the smaller schools are challenged from year to year. One good class at a small school can make a coach look like a genius for a few years and then when that class graduates and they start losing, he no longer knows what he/she is doing? Coaching might win a few games during the course of the year, but it is the ability of the players that gets the coaches the recognition. JMO

All of this is well and good, but do wins really measure how good (or bad) a coach is?

 

It is one of the measurable statistics of this argument. Bad coaches can win games with talent....I get it. But when you are discussing these types of scenarios it is just one thing to take a look at. It's all for good discussion!

I will expound on this a little bit. To me a good coach or a bad coach is a little overrated. If you do not have the horses to compete in the race it really does not matter how good of an X's and O's person you are. This is why coaches at the smaller schools are challenged from year to year. One good class at a small school can make a coach look like a genius for a few years and then when that class graduates and they start losing, he no longer knows what he/she is doing? Coaching might win a few games during the course of the year, but it is the ability of the players that gets the coaches the recognition. JMO

 

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

I really don't think so. He has done a good job with that Dayton team this year but when talking about the top coaches in the region I don't quite think he is in that company. Not sure when he took over but Dayton hasn't exactly been tearing it up the past few years. 15-11, 11-16, 10-17, and 4-21 in the last 4 seasons. (I can't remember if Dilts was there for the 4-21 season)

 

Dayton has a talented team of seniors this year but not quite ready to crown Dilts as a top coach in NKY. Please don't think I am taking away from what that team or he has accomplished but when talking about the top just don't see it.

 

I see your point RC and VOR, but over the past 4 or 5 years most of these seniors have been playing varsity or JV basketball as freshmen or 8th graders and taken their lumps. They aren't going to rack up wins doing that. Dilts has taken these players and developed them and fit them into his system.

 

Isn't that a sign of a good coach, developing talent and molding them to be successful?

 

Dilts has to deal with a lot of off the court issues that Coach Henley has to deal with as well.

While Dayton is not going to win the state tournament this year or the All A tourney. He's done a heck of a job with the hand that he's dealt and I'll still argue that he deserves to be in the top 10 of area coaches.

Adding to my list that ranked the teams by wins over the past 5 years, in the last two columns are 4 year boys enrollment numbers and where they rank in size on this list:

 

1. Holmes - - - - - - - - 138 ..... 425 = 7 (T)

2. Covington Catholic - 100 ...... 496 = 6

3. Bishop Brossart - - - - 98 ......190 = 13

4.(T)Boone County - - - 91 .......793 = 1

Beechwood - - - - - - - 91.........197 = 12

6.(T) Dixie Heights - - - - 87.......722 = 3

Newport Catholic - - - - -87........211 = 11

8. Highlands - - - - - - - -84.......425 = 7 (T)

9. Scott - - - - - - - - - -80.......556 = 5

10. Holy Cross - - - - - - 78.......250 = 10

11. St. Henry - - - - - - -75.......268 = 9

12. Ryle - - - - - - - - - -67.......786 = 2

13. Conner - - - - - - - - 65.......636 = 4

 

Observations ...

 

Obviously this makes Code and Brossart look even more impressive. They are last on this list in size and 3rd on the list in wins. Should Code be considered the best coach based on these facts? Clearly there is a strong argument in his favor.

 

I believe some people will be surprised to see Holmes at number 7 in size (tied with Highlands) and Covington Catholic at number 6.

 

If we were to rank the "small schools" by wins over the past five years, it would be Brossart, Beechwood, Newport Central Catholic, Holy Cross and St. Henry. Any surprises in that?

 

IMO the bottom line on size is this. The big schools are going to win about half their games no matter who the coach is based on the numbers and talent they get. But small schools can compete with the big schools if they have a good program and a good coach. In basketball, size of the school is not nearly as big a factor in success as it is in other sports.

 

If I am not mistaken your stats were just from the last 5 years correct? Cooper HS has only been open the last two years, so just think how much larger Ryle and Conner (and Boone also to a smaller extent), were in the first three years of your results!

Adding to my list that ranked the teams by wins over the past 5 years, in the last two columns are 4 year boys enrollment numbers and where they rank in size on this list:

 

1. Holmes - - - - - - - - 138 ..... 425 = 7 (T)

2. Covington Catholic - 100 ...... 496 = 6

3. Bishop Brossart - - - - 98 ......190 = 13

4.(T)Boone County - - - 91 .......793 = 1

Beechwood - - - - - - - 91.........197 = 12

6.(T) Dixie Heights - - - - 87.......722 = 3

Newport Catholic - - - - -87........211 = 11

8. Highlands - - - - - - - -84.......425 = 7 (T)

9. Scott - - - - - - - - - -80.......556 = 5

10. Holy Cross - - - - - - 78.......250 = 10

11. St. Henry - - - - - - -75.......268 = 9

12. Ryle - - - - - - - - - -67.......786 = 2

13. Conner - - - - - - - - 65.......636 = 4

 

Observations ...

 

Obviously this makes Code and Brossart look even more impressive. They are last on this list in size and 3rd on the list in wins. Should Code be considered the best coach based on these facts? Clearly there is a strong argument in his favor.

 

I believe some people will be surprised to see Holmes at number 7 in size (tied with Highlands) and Covington Catholic at number 6.

 

If we were to rank the "small schools" by wins over the past five years, it would be Brossart, Beechwood, Newport Central Catholic, Holy Cross and St. Henry. Any surprises in that?

 

IMO the bottom line on size is this. The big schools are going to win about half their games no matter who the coach is based on the numbers and talent they get. But small schools can compete with the big schools if they have a good program and a good coach. In basketball, size of the school is not nearly as big a factor in success as it is in other sports.

 

This is somewhat of a double edged sword though. Sure those smaller schools have had success but 4 of the 5 that you mentioned are private schools and one is an independent.

 

I don't want to get in to a public/private debate, but IMO, a small private school is going to be able to compete a lot better than a small public school. Why? Because they draw from more than just one area. This is why year after year Newcath, Brossart, St Henry, and Holy Cross have better programs than a team like Silver Grove, Dayton, and Bellevue.

 

Brossart for example draws from all of Campbell Co, which is one of the biggest counties in the state so are they really at a disadvantage?

 

Some of the smaller schools also don't play anywhere near the schedule of the bigger schools which is going to lead to more wins. I'm not saying they don't play anyone, but they have a lot more "cupcakes" on their schedule than the so called "big boys."

 

One coach that is extremely underrated and I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned is Jim Hicks of Conner. Year after year his team takes their lumps during the regular season, but come post season it's like they kick it in another gear. His teams have played spoiler several times over the past few years.

All of this is well and good, but do wins really measure how good (or bad) a coach is?

 

Based on our poll results, wins don't measure the coach.

How about a stat showing over the last 10 years how many of these coaches have seen their players move onto play at the next level be it Divison I,II, NAIA etc? For some of these student athletes playing a sport such as basketball helps them to afford a higher education. All of the coaches have had success and deserve alot of praise for what they have accomplished over the years. But NKY has had some very good players over the past years was just wondering how many of their past players have been helped through playing basketball for these coaches obtain a college education.

How about a stat showing over the last 10 years how many of these coaches have seen their players move onto play at the next level be it Divison I,II, NAIA etc? For some of these student athletes playing a sport such as basketball helps them to afford a higher education. All of the coaches have had success and deserve alot of praise for what they have accomplished over the years. But NKY has had some very good players over the past years was just wondering how many of their past players have been helped through playing basketball for these coaches obtain a college education.

 

My reason for picking Coach Listerman of CovCath:

Toyota Classic Academic Awards

 

The Scott County Board of Education recognizes the following Junior and Senior student athletes who have maintained a cumulative grade point average of 3.0 or greater:

Cole Heimbrock

Austin Hudepohl

Connor Maschinot

Max Pauly

Brett Reidinger

Andrew Schult

Trevor Willbrock

Stephen Wilson

 

That is 8 of the 15 players on this years varsity squad that carry a 3.0 or better average.

 

Coach Listerman players move on to the next level and while maybe some don't play basketball in college, they are all outstanding students at the next level. Isn't that what a High School Coach/Teacher job is suppose to be all about? Making his students/players better human beings!

My reason for picking Coach Listerman of CovCath:

Toyota Classic Academic Awards

 

The Scott County Board of Education recognizes the following Junior and Senior student athletes who have maintained a cumulative grade point average of 3.0 or greater:

Cole Heimbrock

Austin Hudepohl

Connor Maschinot

Max Pauly

Brett Reidinger

Andrew Schult

Trevor Willbrock

Stephen Wilson

 

That is 8 of the 15 players on this years varsity squad that carry a 3.0 or better average.

 

Coach Listerman players move on to the next level and while maybe some don't play basketball in college, they are all outstanding students at the next level. Isn't that what a High School Coach/Teacher job is suppose to be all about? Making his students/players better human beings!

 

Again, I don't want to get in a public/private debate but Listerman doesn't face the everyday struggles that some of these other coaches have to face with their programs.

 

These kids are already going to Covcath because of its' outstanding academics, so is Listerman the one that is really helping these young men in the classroom?

 

I agree Listerman is an outstanding coach (in my top 2) and he's always been known as a family man, but Covcath in general has a lot of students with a 3.0 or higher...it's not just the basketball players who are excelling in the classroom.

Just using win and loss records don't totally determine if a coach is good or not.

 

Too many factors come in to play, like..

 

-True talent the team has, and the talent of players

-Schedule the team plays

-The development of a feeder program

-Student/athlete population

-Support from the community and District Administration

 

In MY opinion these are some of the factors that determine a good coach.

 

-Has the ability to get the most out of the players he/she has

-Take the talent he/she has and build the team around the players/teams strengths

-Can adapt to different game situations/defenses/etc.

-Has the team playing better as the season goes on (post season play)

-Demands and has the respect of the players and can communicate with players

-Consistant standards with ALL players on the team and promotes team play

-Open to input from assistant coaches

-Gets involved with the feeder schools and starts to implement his/her coaching philosophy

-Practices hard and TEACHES the basics of basketball

 

I've seen teams/coaches not win many games throughout the regular season but when it comes to the post season they perform very well..

 

I also have seen teams/coaches win many games throughout the regular season and go "one-and-done" in the post season...

 

I think a better judge of a coaches abiltiy would be look at their entire coaching career post season performance. What does their team accomplish when it really counts (post-season performance).

^fullcourt...good points in your post but I am going to disagree a little on post season performance. Post season performance can mean different things based on what district you play in. Getting to regional title games or to state is definitely a major accomplishment and is testimony to the coach as well as the players. A coach who gets that far more than once gets even more credibility on judging how good a coach he is. However, districts and getting to the regional are not nearly as significant IMO. In some districts, just getting to the regional means something. In some districts, getting out of district and to the regional doesn't carry nearly as much significance in proving how good a coach you are.

Over the past 5 years including this year Gallatin is 97-42 with 3 all A championships in that time with 3 regional apperancees with 1 quarterfinal finish and a region runner up. The current team is in the All A finals Saturday night. Coach Jones has well over 200 victories in his tenure at a very small rural school that is not afraid to take on the bigger teams. If that doesn't put him in the discussion nothing does.