The obligation of a parent is to support their child and their team. It seems part of the problem roots in the attitudes of some parents. If you constantly talk badly about a coach, it puts the kid in a bind. Should I listen to mom and dad or the coach? This leads to disention. When parents overstep their bounds it sends the wrong message to their kids. Bobby Bowden once said, "if I won every game I had ever coached, I would have developed absolutley no character. Those who have no character wilt when things get tough." What kind of character are we teaching our kids, when it gets tough complain until there is change? Not with my kids and not in my book. Just my thoughts.

 

This year at our banquet I thanked our parents for our kids playing hard every game. Kids will not run through a wall for a coach if they think the coach is wrong. It is tough for a kid to believe the coach is right if mom and dad are saying the coach doesn't know what he is doing. The parents at Mason County are a big reason for our success. They support our program and kids, and they leave the coaches alone to coach. And, the head coach really has little to no control of this. You are either fortunate to have great parents or you are not. In our case, the parents help us win.

 

 

True story- I had a parent come in one Monday, mad at me because I was not giving his son enough recognition. My response was that your son gets to carry the ball across the goalline- what more do you want? What about the kids that never get to do that? That Friday their son dropped a punt in a ballgame. The local newspaper put his name in the paper for dropping the punt. I had nothing to do with that, but I thought it was ironic- be careful what you wish for! :sssh:

BigcatDaddy and Chief Smoke,

 

You both said it perfect!!!!!!!!

This year at our banquet I thanked our parents for our kids playing hard every game. Kids will not run through a wall for a coach if they think the coach is wrong. It is tough for a kid to believe the coach is right if mom and dad are saying the coach doesn't know what he is doing. The parents at Mason County are a big reason for our success. They support our program and kids, and they leave the coaches alone to coach. And, the head coach really has little to no control of this. You are either fortunate to have great parents or you are not. In our case, the parents help us win.

 

 

True story- I had a parent come in one Monday, mad at me because I was not giving his son enough recognition. My response was that your son gets to carry the ball across the goalline- what more do you want? What about the kids that never get to do that? That Friday their son dropped a punt in a ballgame. The local newspaper put his name in the paper for dropping the punt. I had nothing to do with that, but I thought it was ironic- be careful what you wish for! :sssh:

 

I agree with every thing Chief Smoke and BigCatDaddy wrote. And the below thoughts aren't directed towards Coach. As he knows, I have nothing but respect for him.

 

For the very things that Coch and BCD mentioned, I think it's important for there to be great communication between the coaches and the parents. There is that element of parents out there that think they know more than the coaches. If left unchecked, they can become cancerous. Often time their thoughts, attitudes and opinions are based on a lack of information. By encouraging parents to discuss things with the coach, a lot of misinformation and disagreements can be avoided or cleared up.

 

To each coach their own as to how they deal with parents. I know that Coach Mueller tells the parents at the parents meeting at the beginning of the year that if they have issues about playing time or any thing at all, to call him up. He'd rather explain his decisions and hopefully convince the parents of what he's doing, than have them going around town grumbling about him, his coaches and their decisions and poisoning the players. That might not work every where, but it seems to work at Highlands.

 

 

Right, wrong or otherwise, high school sports have changed dramatically in the last 20 years. No longer is it just an after school activity for the kids. They bust their tails year around to win. Players, parents and coaches take it much, much more seriously than it used to be. There is good and bad in that. When lawsuits are filed on an all too frequent basis on eligibility decisions; when players have off season trainers costing a decent amount of money; when we are creating more classes in football to either (your choice) a. level the playing field; b. create an atmosphere that football can improve even more, or c. diffuse the private public split venom, you know you are not in Kansas any more. If players and coaches are taking it much more seriously, it's only natural that the parents are going to do so to. It's just human nature.

 

Sure the easy thing to post is that the parents should just butt out, write the check needed for fundraising and show up on each Friday night to cheer the players and coaches on even if the team is losing. But that's just not real world in this age and if you don't recognize it, you may fall victim to it.

 

As long as the thoughts and feelings are expressed in a professional and courteous manner, I've got no problem with the sharing of thoughts and feelings. If I was a coach, I'd rather hear in a constructive manner than read the type of extremely critical and attacking posts you read on message boards all too often.

 

I would say that if I was a coach and I got survey results that indicated a large majority of the parents disagreed with my decisions (be it style of offense, style of defense, adherence to the Coach's Code of Conduct, etc), unless I could convince them they were wrong, I wouldn't want to stay there any way and I'd rather find out about via a survey than have a bunch of people attacking me behind my back. But that's just me I guess.

I would say that if I was a coach and I got survey results that indicated a large majority of the parents disagreed with my decisions (be it style of offense, style of defense, adherence to the Coach's Code of Conduct, etc), unless I could convince them they were wrong, I wouldn't want to stay there any way and I'd rather find out about via a survey than have a bunch of people attacking me behind my back. But that's just me I guess.

 

...and the coach at S. Oldham has decided to leave after 2 years.

 

The problem I have with this is most of the time these parents do not have the program in mind, but rather their kid/kids that are involved. They do not care about the S. Oldham football PROGRAM. As soon as their kids graduate they will do absolutely nothing to support the football program. But they ran off a pretty good football coach that was trying to build a program. Now S. Oldham will have their 3rd different head coach in 4 years. Not exactly the way to build a program.

I agree with every thing Chief Smoke and BigCatDaddy wrote. And the below thoughts aren't directed towards Coach. As he knows, I have nothing but respect for him.

 

For the very things that Coch and BCD mentioned, I think it's important for there to be great communication between the coaches and the parents. There is that element of parents out there that think they know more than the coaches. If left unchecked, they can become cancerous. Often time their thoughts, attitudes and opinions are based on a lack of information. By encouraging parents to discuss things with the coach, a lot of misinformation and disagreements can be avoided or cleared up.

 

To each coach their own as to how they deal with parents. I know that Coach Mueller tells the parents at the parents meeting at the beginning of the year that if they have issues about playing time or any thing at all, to call him up. He'd rather explain his decisions and hopefully convince the parents of what he's doing, than have them going around town grumbling about him, his coaches and their decisions and poisoning the players. That might not work every where, but it seems to work at Highlands.

 

 

Right, wrong or otherwise, high school sports have changed dramatically in the last 20 years. No longer is it just an after school activity for the kids. They bust their tails year around to win. Players, parents and coaches take it much, much more seriously than it used to be. There is good and bad in that. When lawsuits are filed on an all too frequent basis on eligibility decisions; when players have off season trainers costing a decent amount of money; when we are creating more classes in football to either (your choice) a. level the playing field; b. create an atmosphere that football can improve even more, or c. diffuse the private public split venom, you know you are not in Kansas any more. If players and coaches are taking it much more seriously, it's only natural that the parents are going to do so to. It's just human nature.

 

Sure the easy thing to post is that the parents should just butt out, write the check needed for fundraising and show up on each Friday night to cheer the players and coaches on even if the team is losing. But that's just not real world in this age and if you don't recognize it, you may fall victim to it.

 

As long as the thoughts and feelings are expressed in a professional and courteous manner, I've got no problem with the sharing of thoughts and feelings. If I was a coach, I'd rather hear in a constructive manner than read the type of extremely critical and attacking posts you read on message boards all too often.

 

I would say that if I was a coach and I got survey results that indicated a large majority of the parents disagreed with my decisions (be it style of offense, style of defense, adherence to the Coach's Code of Conduct, etc), unless I could convince them they were wrong, I wouldn't want to stay there any way and I'd rather find out about via a survey than have a bunch of people attacking me behind my back. But that's just me I guess.

 

I think that the number of parents that view a team's progress with an opened and unbiased mind are very limited LN. I am not saying that it doesn't happen, but I am saying it doesn't happen very often. I am of the opinion that parents should know in a program that their opinions or complaints will never affect decisions such as practice time, conditioning, playing time, and scheme. Coaches are professionals paid to do a job. I didn't agree with many things that the man did, but one of my favorite coaching quotes came from a former Highlands coach when he told a parent that was a plumber to stick to laying pipe, and he would stick to doing what he was paid to do. I think surveys like this make parents even more vocal with biased complaints because it gives them a sense that it will affect decision making.:confused:

Leatherneck, I would just counter with the survey comments and aggree with other posts that the survey was not intended to better the coach, coaching staff, or program. It was meant to further discredit the coach and coaching staff. Now, if the survey was given to all parents (it wasnt) and done by the coaching staff (it wasnt) then it might be a little different. But having a parent that decides on their own (or with a few fellow disgruntled parents) that need to get a survey together and only give it to a select few parents, then in no way do I see how it was ever meant to help anything.

To piggy back the last few quotes, I want to say that winning cures alot. If Highlands were to hit a streak of 2-8 ( and man this is wishful thinking:D), do you think Coach Mueller would want to take those calls? Do you all think that he would have the support he does now? The answer is yes at Highlands- because I think as a fan base/parent base there is a basic understanding of how football works.Now at any county High in the state a string like would have the villagers at the gate. This survey was S. Oldham Parents' pitchforks and torches. This was, as one of the poster on here put it, a way fora few parents to focus on only their kid. My question is, what will they do if they get the same result from the next coach, will they break out the survey again and try to run this one off keep doing this until they get what they want or teir kid graduates. My other questions to coaches out there who read this, what does this say about the administration of this school to allow parents to control a situation like this? What does it say to the other coaches iin other sport in that school? Is the survey going to be used on them? I think Andrew Jackson said the "Precedence is a dangerous source of Authority". Sometimes we don't stop to think about that.

Maybe the parents could take turns coaching the team at South. Some run practice, some do the games, etc. Then if they still were not winning, they could start blaming each other.

The obligation of a parent is to support their child and their team. It seems part of the problem roots in the attitudes of some parents. If you constantly talk badly about a coach, it puts the kid in a bind. Should I listen to mom and dad or the coach? This leads to disention. When parents overstep their bounds it sends the wrong message to their kids. Bobby Bowden once said, "if I won every game I had ever coached, I would have developed absolutley no character. Those who have no character wilt when things get tough." What kind of character are we teaching our kids, when it gets tough complain until there is change? Not with my kids and not in my book. Just my thoughts.

 

AMEN!!! :thumb: The best gift any parent can give their athlete/child is to ALLOW THEM TO BE COACHED. Good / bad / indifferent, the athlete has to learn to bend to the needs of the team, and there are many life lessons to be learned from being COACHED - even when by a bad coach.

 

Amazingly, not all of the managers I've reported to in my professional life have been nice or even competent. But I don't get a choice in who those people are...

 

And even winning does NOT cure all...

Maybe the parents could take turns coaching the team at South. Some run practice, some do the games, etc. Then if they still were not winning, they could start blaming each other.

 

Well the 10% who do 90% of the work usually do not do the complaining (in most instances) so they probably would not be able to find the parents who would step up and try to do all that it takes to coach. It is most always the parents who always find and point out the problems but they NEVER seem to have realistic solutions. The complainers would complain if Knute Rockne or Vince Lombardi coached their kids because, let's face it, it is always about just their children. Some never will understand the true beauty of football being the ultimate TEAM sport. Instead of complaining and finding issues with what a coach and staff are doing to challenge their children, teach children to accept a challenge and grow from it. Setting lofty goals creates many challenges, maybe we should just stop setting lofty goals. Let's just teach everybody that being average (or even mediocre) is not a bad thing, let's stop keeping score and everyone will be happy. No, I have a better idea, teach kids that winning IS everything because when they go out into the real world and interview for a job, the 2nd best interviewee LOSES! (And by the Way, mom and dad can't go talk to your boss, send out a survey or form a lynch mob to get your job for you!):thumb:

Well the 10% who do 90% of the work usually do not do the complaining (in most instances) so they probably would not be able to find the parents who would step up and try to do all that it takes to coach. It is most always the parents who always find and point out the problems but they NEVER seem to have realistic solutions. The complainers would complain if Knute Rockne or Vince Lombardi coached their kids because, let's face it, it is always about just their children. Some never will understand the true beauty of football being the ultimate TEAM sport. Instead of complaining and finding issues with what a coach and staff are doing to challenge their children, teach children to accept a challenge and grow from it. Setting lofty goals creates many challenges, maybe we should just stop setting lofty goals. Let's just teach everybody that being average (or even mediocre) is not a bad thing, let's stop keeping score and everyone will be happy. No, I have a better idea, teach kids that winning IS everything because when they go out into the real world and interview for a job, the 2nd best interviewee LOSES! (And by the Way, mom and dad can't go talk to your boss, send out a survey or form a lynch mob to get your job for you!):thumb:

 

I agree 100 percent. The problem that goes on and I would say the majority of the mid-level programs see it: 1. Parents get in the way of the system at every level of the program. As a coach don't push little Johnny to hard cause it might hurt his feelings, ego, etc. Don't scream at little Johnny cause it hurts his feelings. Don't make him run too much cause he can't run good. Oh by the way coach, you need to make sure little Johnny and the rest of his buddies win all their games and go to state and if you don't make it, the coach is at fault cause he doesn't know what he is doing.

 

Parents..... coming from a parent....stay out of the way. This is a demanding sport, you have to be prepared mentally, physically, and there is no room for error. A coach has to be able to implement a system of discipline to the young men playing for and they have to be able to respect that. If we as parents jump in the middle every time little Johnny gets yelled, we are crippling him. Suck it up parents and allow your child to grow. The ability to learn a system and live with the chewing that they get or the praise or constructive criticism they receive is neccessary to become better adults.

 

I have always told my boys, I don't like my boss for many reasons but I also like putting food on the table so they can eat.

 

 

To sum it up---IF YOU CAN"T STAND THE HEAT

I agree 100 percent. The problem that goes on and I would say the majority of the mid-level programs see it: 1. Parents get in the way of the system at every level of the program. As a coach don't push little Johnny to hard cause it might hurt his feelings, ego, etc. Don't scream at little Johnny cause it hurts his feelings. Don't make him run too much cause he can't run good. Oh by the way coach, you need to make sure little Johnny and the rest of his buddies win all their games and go to state and if you don't make it, the coach is at fault cause he doesn't know what he is doing.

 

Parents..... coming from a parent....stay out of the way. This is a demanding sport, you have to be prepared mentally, physically, and there is no room for error. A coach has to be able to implement a system of discipline to the young men playing for and they have to be able to respect that. If we as parents jump in the middle every time little Johnny gets yelled, we are crippling him. Suck it up parents and allow your child to grow. The ability to learn a system and live with the chewing that they get or the praise or constructive criticism they receive is neccessary to become better adults.

 

I have always told my boys, I don't like my boss for many reasons but I also like putting food on the table so they can eat.

 

 

To sum it up---IF YOU CAN"T STAND THE HEAT

 

Preech on preecher!:ylsuper:

...and the coach at S. Oldham has decided to leave after 2 years.

 

The problem I have with this is most of the time these parents do not have the program in mind, but rather their kid/kids that are involved. They do not care about the S. Oldham football PROGRAM. As soon as their kids graduate they will do absolutely nothing to support the football program. But they ran off a pretty good football coach that was trying to build a program. Now S. Oldham will have their 3rd different head coach in 4 years. Not exactly the way to build a program.

 

The most difficult thing is to get the parents to buy into the program. Nothing does more for the kids than being part of a successful program. It is all about what the coaches can do for their kid. It is the most frustrating getting big wins and then having to explain to parents why their child didn't get the time they thought they should! Forget the win my son or daughter didn't play enough.

 

Someone told me of a coach telling the parents at a banquet that if their son is not playing as much as they like stay positive and support the team, don't point the finger and blame the coach or whomever. That negativity will get into the kids head and will eventually lead to the kid not practicing to his ability and the issue will snowball!

As a Coach, as a student of the game of football, as a fierce competitor, as an egotistical and sometimes arrogant, I hope you can believe me in the fact that in 24 years of coaching; I haven't met even one coach, that doesn't put his players FIRST. It is as hard to put each kid into the correct position to give that individual a chance to be successful so that the team can ultimately have the best chance to be successful as I would imagine it would be as a parent to divvy up your time evenly or equally to each child.

 

We, as coaches, are typically graded by our W-L loss record. Being curious, I went back and looked at how many teams in this decade ending this year had been "winners" based on this scale. Only 43% of the teams ended the decade with overall winning records. Only 11% of the teams won more than 70% of their games. Teams that go 7 wins per year consistently are often tabbed with the moniker of "can't win the big one".

 

Coaching is as thankless a job as is parenting. Even though we get paid very little for coaching, do you know that you get paid less to parent?

 

My point is that I hope that at some point you put your surveys away and understand that we are trying to do as right by your children as you are. Please believe me that we all have players and ex-players who might not ever touch the field on Friday night or might never play the position that they'd like to play. Know that we value those kids just as much as the superstar son that gets every head line. How can we not value the kid who, at Senior Night, announces the position he plays as "Where ever Coach asked me to play". Or the kid I talked into being a manager because he was just too small and frail only to have the kid beg in tears to be let back on the official roster because he just wanted to be a part of it. You'd better believe that I had tears in my eyes when that young man caught the first ball of his career(practice included) on Senior night in his final game.

 

So while we all want the "W", know that each kid who graduates from a football program; wins.

 

Put your surveys away. We need your support.

Edited December 22, 200916 yr by Ram
Rule 8

Well obviously I'm wrong. If I see a coaching staff that isn't getting it done on the field (and please do not ask me to believe that every head coach in Ky is actually a good football coach; nice guys maybe; but all of them are good football coaches? Please); or isn't following a coach's code of conduct in place; or is not giving water breaks when he should; or has kicked back and isn't pushing the kids, etc, etc, I'll just ignore it and let the program suffer and slide. Then when the team hasn't done as well as supporters want, we'll just blame the private schools for having all the unfair advantages. South Oldham went 6-26 over the last 3 years. If I was a stake holder in that program, you can dang well believe I'd be doing something to improve the program. 6-26 is simply unacceptable to me.

 

See, not every parent knows nothing about football; not every parent is only interested in their own little Johnny getting more playing time; not every parent is only interested in the football team when his or her son is on it. At least not where I come from. The key is being smart enough to be able to not let emotions get in the way of assessing and thinking logically. Some parents, to the contrary of what has been posted on here, actually have the ability to assess what they see and determine that a coach isn't getting it done. As long as they handle it in a professional manner, I've got no problem with parents and supporters wanting to address a coaching staff that has gone 6-26 over the last three years. I can assure you of one thing: Highlands goes 6-26 and it won't be just me that is talking to the coaches and administration about changes being needed to be made. Now perhaps there are some legit reasons for S. Oldham going 6-26 over the last three years; maybe Chuck Smith, Mike Yeagle, Bob Beatty and Dale Mueller all on the coaching staff couldn't have done any better. Again, I'm not familiar enough what has gone on at S. Oldham the last three years other than the won-loss record, so I'm not passing judgment on the past head coach. All I'm saying is that there are circumstances where a parent should be involved and demand more from a coaching staff. Yes, I understand that almost, make it every for argument purposes, coach cares greatly about the kids, puts in a lot of time and gets paid very little. I get that. But that isn't enough for me. I'm not going to tolerate mediocrity or losing records. I want to win and win very often and if the coaching staff isn't getting that accomplished (without acceptable reasons), as a supporter of the program, I'm getting involved to make change occur. Jack Eicher, a former Highlands coach, was a great man. a truly great man. He was one of my assistant coaches and I truly loved the guy. But if he had remained as the Highlands head coach through today, we'd probably have 9 state championships instead of 19; we'd have a lot less support for the football program; we'd have a lot less kids involved; and we'd have mediocrity in our football program. That is unacceptable to me.

 

Again, I'm sure I'm wrong because I'm just a parent and supporter, but I see the lack of tolerance for repeated losing seasons and mediocrity as evidence of the further growth in popularity of high school football. What was acceptable a decade ago, isn't acceptable any more. Kids condition and train year around; parents are asked to shuck out big bucks to personal trainers and to fund the extra things that separate the best from the average; coaches ask the parents for support to make winning possible. And with those things come greater expecations from the kids, the parents and supporters. I fully realize that not every team can win a state championship or only lose a game or two each year. But more and more parents and supporters want their program to at least be serious contenders almost every year. Yes that's big pressure on coaches, maybe more than some want. But that's what is coming (heck, it is here and has been here for some time at some programs) with the increased popularity and interest in Ky high school football and if a coach doesn't want that type of pressure, he's going to have to find a head coaching job at a school that doesn't have those very high expectations.

Edited December 22, 200916 yr by leatherneck