Aaron Manns from Corbin made it as an honorable mention LB...................a position that as far as I know he has never played.:idunno:

Aaron Manns from Corbin made it as an honorable mention LB...................a position that as far as I know he has never played.:idunno:

 

:laugh:

I didn't complain about the AP running backs. Look at the numbers and tell me they aren't at least honorable mention.

I wish all these publications would name a first and second team and be done with it. I hate the everyone needs a trophy mentality.

 

Stats (numbers) do nothing for me. Rees McShara would have rushed for 5000 yds this year had they left him in against inferior teams.

Aaron Manns from Corbin made it as an honorable mention LB...................a position that as far as I know he has never played.:idunno:

 

Yeah, that kind of confused me, too.

I wish all these publications would name a first and second team and be done with it. I hate the everyone needs a trophy mentality.

 

Stats (numbers) do nothing for me. Rees McShara would have rushed for 5000 yds this year had they left him in against inferior teams.

 

I would agree to a point. But did you see everyone on the list play? If not then you must put some credibility in stats. Also most kids on the list probably didn't play much past the third quarter in over half of their games.

In my opinion, this would get us the most "legitimate" All-State team:

 

1) Coaches must nominate their player(s) for the team on basis that he is one of the top 5% of all players he's ever coached. Therefore, the coach would not be able to nominate 5 to 7 players each year.

 

2) Coach or player must send to whatever source is running the thing a highlight film of that player and one full game (game must be against a team with an eventual winning record). Must be in by the Tuesday after the final regular season game.

 

3) A panel of outstanding former coaches (preferably Ky. HS legends--Jaggers, Morris, Jimmie Reed, Cotton Adams,), the head coaches of the East and West All-Star teams, media members known for covering Ky. HS football (M. Fields, J. Demling, B. White, J. Frakes, L. Vaught, among others), and maybe some former college coaches who understand how to really evaluate HS talent would need to be assembled.

 

4) The films sent in get uploaded to YouTube or maybe to a site that can be accessed using the coaches' online film-trade system so the panel can view the highlight films on their own for four weeks.

 

5) That panel gets together the weekend of the state finals (meetings would be mornings prior to each day of games and all day Sunday). There, they'd bring in their picks for each position and try to come to some kind of consensus for each position. If there's a debate between two or more kids, the full-game films of those kids are used to get a sense of how the kid played for an entire game against a quality opponent -- not just based on his 'best plays.'

 

Now, there are obvious hardships that would have to be overcome with this:

A. Who chooses the panel?

B. What incentive would they have to spend a 4-day weekend doing such a thing?

C. Who pays the expenses for the panel (travel, meals, lodging)?

D. Many coaches wouldn't want to take the time in-season to get stuff together, so some of the best kids might not get nominated. (Might be a way the coaches vote -- "vote for the best 2 at each position you've seen" -- or AP could still figure in somehow...maybe at least to earn 'Honorable Mention' if their coach doesn't nominate them.)

E. Who invests the time to upload all those highlight videos!?

 

By suggesting this, I don't mean to slight the work Jody Demling at the C-J does in compiling the coaches' votes (we're a TOUGH group with which to work!)--he deserves a LOT of thanks for the effort he puts into that. But, I think even he would agree that an All-State team done based on what coaches eventually send in is fraught with errors, omissions, and a lot of 'you-vote-for-mine-I'll-vote-for-yours' stuff. The AP list -- with such a small number of media voting and being so spread out throughout the state -- speaks for itself. (I think the BGP is about the most accurate out there -- leaves off the coaches' vote-trading the CJ has and gets input from a much larger group with better overall state-wide coverage than the AP can get with only allowing voting by newspapers with daily circulation.)

In my opinion, this would get us the most "legitimate" All-State team:

 

1) Coaches must nominate their player(s) for the team on basis that he is one of the top 5% of all players he's ever coached. Therefore, the coach would not be able to nominate 5 to 7 players each year.

 

 

 

Why would this work? What would keep a coach from saying that the player(s) he nominated this year were better than the players he nominated last year, thus knocking them out of the top 5%?

What even makes less sense, Nichols of Ryle made honorable mention with 22 receptions for 354 yards and 3 td while his teammate Fugate had 31 receptions for 670 yards and 7 td's. Nichols was ranked 19th at the WR spot in Northern KY and Fugate was 2nd. Have no clue what the AP looks at. :isurrender:

Didn't want to spoil the celebration of the young men who were named AP All-State and honorable mention so I thought I would start a thread on the kids left out. I'm a Bellevue fan so I will start with Ricky Buckler. The following stats are after 13 games mainly because thats where the KHSAA stats seem to stop.

 

1. Led the entire state in rushing after regular season.

2. Led the entire state in rushing TD's after regular season.

3. Led the entire state in carries, showing his team ask him to do more than

any other team in the state ask of a single player.

4. Out of 16 kids on the list for Running Backs here is how he compares after

13 games. (3 of the players weren't even listed on the top 15 for their

class)

 

Total yards # 1 - 2,851

Rushing TD's #1 - 42

# of car # 1 - 387

Average Yards per game #1 -219

Average Yards per carry # 11 - 7.4

 

 

 

In addition to this years stats Ricky set school records in:

 

1. Single Season Scoring - 252

2. Career Scoring - 496

3. Single Season Rushing - 2851 yards

4. Career Rushing - 5263 yards

5. Single game Rushing - 362 yards

 

In addition to his school records Ricky Buckler will appear on the list of 10 different state records.

 

How was this kid over looked?:confused:

 

Papa,

I agree that Buckler should be mentioned but lets not belittle the process because there is no perfect way to pick this team or any other team that has been picked so far. There are always good players that are going to be left out due to speading the wealth. Does this make it right, NO but there were other players that should be mentioned on this team and other teams posted so far that were not as well. Congrats to all the players menitoned.

Aaron Manns from Corbin made it as an honorable mention LB...................a position that as far as I know he has never played.:idunno:

 

They must have meant DE or considered him an outside LB. That's all I can figure.

 

Aaron had a very good 2 seasons for the Hounds. Would LOVE to have seen just how good he could have been playing all 4 years.

Papa,

I agree that Buckler should be mentioned but lets not belittle the process because there is no perfect way to pick this team or any other team that has been picked so far. There are always good players that are going to be left out due to speading the wealth. Does this make it right, NO but there were other players that should be mentioned on this team and other teams posted so far that were not as well. Congrats to all the players menitoned.

 

 

NCBIRD,

 

Sorry, I in no way am trying to take anything away from any of the kids on the list. That is why I started this thread as to not take anything away from their thread. I haven't mentioned any players names as to who doesn't belong so if I gave the impression the thread was to belittle anyone I apologize again. My intention was to have a place to recognize some players left off the list.

 

As for the system don't you feel that some of the picks were ovious HOMMER PICKS? Not one running back on the honerable mention list with over 1500 yards. I realize their are exception where the player was hurt but, still one of the best.

Why would this work? What would keep a coach from saying that the player(s) he nominated this year were better than the players he nominated last year, thus knocking them out of the top 5%?

 

Nothing. A coach could absolutely do that.

 

But REQUESTING the players nominated be in the top 5% of all he's coached might put coaches on their honor to only nominate those truly the 'best in the state.' Thus, might help cut down on the quantity of players the panel would have to review.

 

Currently, some coaches send out requests for others to vote for 4-6 kids on a team that was barely above .500 or had a losing record. I don't doubt they were great players for that coach's team, but could a team REALLY have 4-6 "true All-Staters" on it and have lost that many games?

 

The ballot for picking the Ky. East-West All-Star games requires us to nominate only TWO of our own players. I don't know that I'd want to put an 'automatic limit' on the number we could nominate like that, but that's a group trying to come up with ONLY the absolute best players in the state. Why not try to do that for All-State too?

NCBIRD,

 

Sorry, I in no way am trying to take anything away from any of the kids on the list. That is why I started this thread as to not take anything away from their thread. I haven't mentioned any players names as to who doesn't belong so if I gave the impression the thread was to belittle anyone I apologize again. My intention was to have a place to recognize some players left off the list.

 

Trust me papa, I feel your pain!!!

What even makes less sense, Nichols of Ryle made honorable mention with 22 receptions for 354 yards and 3 td while his teammate Fugate had 31 receptions for 670 yards and 7 td's. Nichols was ranked 19th at the WR spot in Northern KY and Fugate was 2nd. Have no clue what the AP looks at. :isurrender:

 

There is no TE position on all state. You are either voted as a receiver or OL. I would say that the Nichols vote had nothing to do with the number of receptions.

There is no TE position on all state. You are either voted as a receiver or OL. I would say that the Nichols vote had nothing to do with the number of receptions.

 

That makes sense although deceiving.